Podcast appearance
United Against the Pressure: Building a Marriage That Stays Strong
Elo Oghenevwede Splendour and Pesa Shayo explore communication, empathy, boundaries, and the shift from you versus me to us versus the challenge.
- Podcast
- Elsplend Realities
- Host
- Elo Oghenevwede Splendour
- Published
- Guest
- Pesa Shayo
Listen
Elsplend Realities
Episode overview
About this conversation
Elo Oghenevwede Splendour and Pesa Shayo explore communication, empathy, boundaries, and the shift from you versus me to us versus the challenge.
The conversation covers pressure beyond the couple, cross-cultural expectations, communication and empathy, healthy boundaries with family, us versus the challenge, protecting connection when life is complicated.
Key takeaways
Marriage principles discussed
- Pressure beyond the couple.
- Cross-cultural expectations.
- Communication and empathy.
- Healthy boundaries with family.
- Us versus the challenge.
- Protecting connection when life is complicated.
Chapters
Conversation chapters
Full transcript
Elsplend Realities transcript
Transcript note: Published with permission and formatted for readability. This transcript was automatically generated from the original public recording or caption track. Speaker names are omitted where the source did not identify them, and minor transcription errors may remain.
00:00Introduction and guest background
Marriage isn't usually tested by the big movements we prepare for.
More often, it's shaped by the quiet everyday tensions we never expected,
the conversations that go unresolved,
the expectations we never discussed,
and the outside voices that slowly become louder than our own.
The strongest relationships aren't those without challenges.
They're the ones where two people learn how to stand side-by-side
Even when life pulls from every direction, this is our splendid realities where we explore the
conversations that strengthen our relationships, deepen our self-awareness and help us live with
greater intention. Today we're talking about unity, communication and what it really means to build a
marriage that remains strong when outside pressure shows up. Today's guest is Pesa Shayo, author,
podcast host and co-founder of Live Your Best Marriage where he helps cross-cultural Christian
couples build what he calls a united front. Drawing from his own cross-cultural marriage
with his wife, Whitney as well as years of working alongside other couples, Pesa's somehow even deeply
committed relationships can be strained by family expectations, cultural differences, loyalty conflicts
and communication breakdowns. His work isn't simply about resolving disagreements, it's
about helping couples recognize that the real challenge often is in each other, it's the
pressure surrounding their relationship. Rather than allowing those pressures to create division,
Pesa equips couples with practical faith-centered tools to communicate honestly, establish healthy
boundaries and approach life's challenges as partners rather than opponents. At the
The heart of this message is a powerful reminder. When couples stop fighting each other and begin facing the problem together, everything changes.
Pesa, it's an honor to have you on Elspend. Reality is welcome to the show.
Thank you very much for having me, Ello. I'm very excited to be here today.
You're welcome. Thank you so much.
So your message centers around helping couples build a united front. What has inspired that idea? And why do you believe it's so essential in marriage?
Thank you. What has really inspired that idea is my own marriage and the difficulties that we went through for a long time, not even knowing that those were the issues that we were dealing with.
Originally, I'm from Kenya and my wife Whitney is from America.
And we've been married for more than 20 years.
We have four daughters.
And for a long time,
I believed being strong, a great husband meant working hard,
paying the bills
and making sure that my family was okay financially.
I grew up seeing this happening as a kid
with my parents and also my uncles
and I knew this was how men who are responsible handle their family.
So, I worked six nights a week and in my mind I was proving that as long as I sacrificed for
03:00Pressure beyond the couple
my family that was what I would call love but through this whole time my wife Whitney was also
feeling alone and after the birth of our third daughter she was she confronted me
and she was ready to live. She wanted the papers to sign and leave. Now there was no affair or any
problem, not public scandal but the problem for me was I was measuring myself by what I had seen
happening as a child basically measuring myself by my effort while she was leaving the impact of
being alone every day so she was feeling alone. I felt like I'm this great husband, great dad
being there but I wasn't there. But thank God, and I say again thank God because at that moment
it actually forced me to be honest about what I was doing because for the longest time I thought
what my wife was experiencing was what I was experiencing too. But we had two different
things. We were seeing the two different things and eventually it became this argument and this
realization that we were not on the same page and we literally were about to split,
really ended up becoming what made us form the Live Your Best Marriage ministry.
So many relationships are undamaged by a lack of love or by outside pressures
that quietly create division. Why do you think those influences often go on
nurses until conflict becomes recurring?
You know I believe most of us come into the marriage with a lot of assumptions
and we never question the assumptions that we are bringing into the marriage.
And it doesn't really matter if this is a cross-cultural couple or not, there's so many assumptions
and sometimes we quietly, we are quietly rating our spouse on what they're doing or not doing
not exactly because of their actions at the moment but because of the baggage that we bring
into the marriage. And when you add something like culture, two different cultures into the mix,
now everything becomes explosive because just something as simple as holidays. One person might
have grown up in a place where holidays, let's say Christmas are supposed to be a small family affair.
And when I say small, I mean mom, dad, husband, wife and the kids while somebody else would
is a place where Christmas involves the whole community.
So now there's a different expectation here, and one person will be saying,
how come I'm being put in a situation where there's nobody coming to celebrate Christmas with us?
Well, the other person is like why do we have to bring so many people
just to celebrate something that's supposed to be more intimate?
06:01Cross-cultural expectations
in different environments and they have different cultures and different beliefs.
So it's most, yeah, come to the point that maybe one person is like,
why are we doing this this way? And other persons having a different perspective on it.
Yes.
So people just have to maybe try and understand each other's perspective or maybe come to a compromise
if it's needed.
Yes, and that's a great word, compromise.
Because sometimes you end up having to negotiate compromises
because that's the only way to move forward.
Like a case in point where I was raised,
the way we name kids is after…
So we named kids after their grandparents.
But in my wife's culture,
The mother who has given birth to a kid is supposed to name the child because it's seen as her child.
She went through the nine months of pregnancy, now she can name her child.
So we had two different expectations.
She just knows she's going to name our daughter.
I know we are naming our kids after my grandparents
and my side of the family was expecting that we are naming them
after their grandparents.
She was expecting she's gonna name the kid after herself, what she wants.
Now that was, right now it doesn't sound like a big deal but at that time it was a big deal breaker.
Eventually we were able to compromise and she chose the first name I chose the middle name
and we have the surname as our surname but if we didn't compromise on that one
it would have been a big problem and right now we laugh about it
but at that time it was very tense.
So your own cross-cultural marriage achieves much of your work.
What lessons has that journey taught you about empathy, communication and understanding someone
who's experiences differ from your own?
Yes, my cross-cultural marriage taught me that sometimes you can love each other a lot
But being friends, it's more important.
And what we mean is when you're friends with somebody,
you are more likely to give them the benefit of doubt.
You are more likely to ask and actually pause
to understand where they are coming from.
So you are more likely to be empathetic about their situation.
Some things might be very easy to me
because just the fact that I was raised in that environment.
09:01Communication and empathy
For example, maybe preparing goat might be very easy and it just sounds like such a no-brainer.
But somebody who has never seen goat being prepared
and they are learning it for the first time, it might be like hell to them.
That does not mean that they're not going to learn.
It just means that there needs to be given time.
Now, that will mean that if you really love them and you view them as a friend,
you are willing to walk them through this whole process
to the point that they'll be able to understand and start doing that thing.
Because that's the same thing they're doing for you.
They see sometimes that you might not be getting something from their culture
but they're willing to walk you through the process.
Now, being compassionate, being empathetic and at the same time remembering that as a couple you need to be on the same team.
So even if you might be disagreeing go at home and talk about it first before going out in public and disagreeing in public
because sometimes you can find more creative ways to solve a situation or to solve a problem
if you spend time working through it as a friend versus just saying,
You know what? I'm right. You are wrong.
You never do something right the way I tell you. No, no, no.
Be empathetic. Be calm and you'll always find a way to make it work.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Be empathetic. Be calm and you will find…
Always find a way to make it work.
just like you mentioned, coming together to try and solve the issue as friends
not trying to claim that your right and the other person is wrong.
Yeah so please go ahead. And this applies to pretty much every couple.
Some people might be like you know what? This doesn't apply to me my wife is from
from my own culture, so I can really treat her the way I want.
But what you don't appreciate even if your wife is from the same culture as you,
she also is expecting to be treated as a human being and with also respect.
So yes it might have worked long time ago before your wife has more information like
from the internet and having the phones and things like that.
So yes, you might have worked a long time ago for your grandparents,
but for now she will also expect to be treated with more respect
and as a human too.
So being empathetic is very important.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Yes.
So family relationships can be one of the greatest blessings in marriage
but it can also become a source of tension.
12:01Healthy boundaries with family
Yes.
How can couples establish healthy boundaries
whilst honoring the people they love?
Thank you. This is a very important question because most people,
when they come from a collective culture like me,
we were raised to believe that our parents were very important
and whatever our parents said, we were taught to respect that and accept that
so there was this idea that I will always love and honor my parents
So we are not saying that because you're living at United Front,
you need to be rude and disrespectful to parents.
No, we are saying that because two of you became one
and created a new home,
you still have the responsibility
to love and honor your parents.
But what we are saying now is although you love
and honor them and they can give you advice,
you are not gonna accept that advice
until you have a conversation with your spouse,
because at the end of the day,
that is the person who will be affected the most
with some of this advice.
So it's like a case in point.
Some people will have a WhatsApp group
where they communicate with their family members.
That's great.
But sometimes decisions are already made
in the WhatsApp group
and by the time they get to the spouse,
it has already been…
The decision has already been made
and the money has already been sent.
Let's say you're buying a piece of land or you are building something back home.
Everything has already been done and that's when the wife or the husband is getting the information.
That can lead to a lot of resentment.
We are not saying that the fact that you are having a conversation with your spouse
is an automatic no, they will always say no.
I think we are giving them the benefit of doubt because if you are sending, let's say for example,
sending money and they don't know, that's really going to affect them
because you are sending it from the household budget.
So in a way, you're preventing these things
of you are sending, you are hiding, everything is a mystery,
nobody knows what's going on
and just leads to more and more resentment.
But if they know from the get-go
that we are working extra so that
we are paying school fees for somebody else,
they know ahead of time
and they are willing to participate through the whole thing.
It actually makes their life much easier.
So setting boundaries, I believe starts with being united
which is having that working together as a team
and then being willing to.
So now we are not saying don't take advice
but first be united first
And that makes setting boundaries so easy
because now they're not gonna go around the person
who's quote unquote setting boundaries
and talk to their child
because they view you as the bad one who's setting boundaries.
But if you're setting boundaries together,
there is nobody to go around.
True, true, true.
You need to carry your partner along,
not toss them to one corner
15:01Us versus the challenge
and maybe act as if their opinion don't matter.
Yes, yes, yes.
Need to carry them along.
Yes.
And whatever, yeah, like you mentioned before
you initiate any advice from your parents,
discuss it with your partner first
because yes, their opinions matter and they need to know.
They need to be carried alone.
Yes, there will be dealing with the consequences
of your decision.
And unless you're planning to be married
but you are also having this,
you're keeping secrets, constant keeping secret.
But if you are married and you're trying to,
you're working to have a great marriage,
these secrets, constant keeping secrets,
hiding doesn't bring what we call connection. You won't feel very connected to something.
You are basically two roommates in one house, everybody's hiding. But if you want that
connection to feel like, you know what? This is my spouse and we are connected for life,
that will need… We need to stop these secrets, constant secrets,
is very important because it's so easy to constantly go to you versus me.
You always do this, you always do this, you never help, but just remember that turning against each other actually weakens your marriage.
And we go back to the same thing.
you got married because you were friends. And sometimes after many years we forget that
when you are dating and looking forward to get married it was because you believe that she's the
one or he's the one, and we are friends we can talk about everything and we are looking forward
to living their life together. So what we are just encouraging you is just the way you are dating
bring that energy into your marriage which is continue being friends. Now once you are
friends now it's easy to work on problems together which requires a different type of energy also
it's easier to be lovers because the friendship will connect these two things, the working
together on problems going through difficult times in marriage and at the same time being
People who love each other because in marriage sometimes you will go through a hard time.
Somebody would be sick, there'll be a death in the family, there'll be a lot of things which
18:02Protecting connection when life is complicated
you never plant so but if you're going through this as a friend it feels like it's much easier.
True. When you are going through to us friends it shows that you are in this together and
you're not against each other yeah yes yes yeah so if every couple listening today could walk away
with one practical habit that strengthens unity in their relationship.
What should you encourage them to begin practicing today?
The one thing I will, other than remembering why they got married, which they were friends,
as much as possible when we get home tonight this evening, at least I would recommend
to put the phone down and this is something that might not, you might not think it's a problem but
sometimes the phone becomes something that puts you away from your connection.
So I'm trying to connect with my wife but if she's on the phone, she isn't what's up talking
to her friends or she's in Instagram or Facebook talking to her friends there is no connection
it's literally like two roommates but if she puts the phone down and we are literally listening
to each other, ton of the TV and even if it's for five minutes, it will start just a new
energy in the house where now you're like oh you know what I'm listening to her. You know
what she's telling me something and instead of arguing i can say hey you know i agree with
you. That will bring a different vibe in the house instead of just she's talking
I'm on my phone, I'm listening but I'm still sending messages here.
That doesn't bring any connection.
Yeah true.
That doesn't bring any connection.
When the both of you are in a room
You have to acknowledge each other's presence
Not one person will be in another state
And the other person will be in another state entirely
Both of you need to be present and acknowledge each other's presence.
You're great, yeah that's true.
Yeah. Pesa thank you for sharing your wisdom and for reminding us that healthy relationships aren't
built by avoiding challenges they are strengthened by learning how to face them together. Your
perspective encourages us to move beyond blame, communicate with greater understanding and
intentionally protect the unity that marriage was designed to cultivate. Thank you for joining
Take the quiz, in less than three minutes you'll be able to find out how connected they are
and what they need to work on in their marriage, especially when it comes to being a United Front.
Yeah. Every relationship will experience moments of pressure. The question isn't whether challenges
will come. It's how we respond when they do. So before you move on with your day, take a moment
to reflect. When conflict arises in your closest relationships, do you instinctively defend
yourself or pause long enough to remember that the real goal isn't winning the argument but
protecting the connection? Until next time, these are our splendid realities where meaningful
conversations about growing self-awareness strengthen our relationships and live with greater
intention. Stay present, choose understanding over assumption, and remember that the greatest
that the strongest partnerships are built by people who face life challenges together.
Yes.
Thanks again Pesa.
Credits and links
About this podcast appearance
Elsplend Realities is hosted by Elo Oghenevwede Splendour. This page remains connected to the original public episode.
Learn more about Pesa Shayo, explore his books, or see more podcast appearances. Marriage resources are available from Live Your Best Marriage.