Podcast appearance
141 – United Front: Strengthening Marriage, Boundaries, and Faith at Home with Pesa and Whitney Shayo
Jennifer Bosma talks with Pesa and Whitney Shayo about protecting marriage unity while honoring extended family, navigating cultural differences, homeschooling as a team, and keeping faith at the center of the home.
- Podcast
- Front Parking Spot Podcast
- Host
- Jennifer Bosma
- Published
- Guests
- Pesa Shayo and Whitney Shayo
Listen
Front Parking Spot Podcast, Episode 141
Episode overview
How couples build a United Front at home
In this conversation, Pesa and Whitney explain why marriage becomes vulnerable when relatives, cultural expectations, or private family conversations create a gap between spouses. Their central recommendation is practical: important decisions should come to the marriage first, before they are carried into extended-family conversations.
The discussion also covers respectful boundaries with parents and in-laws, the difference between collectivist and individualist family cultures, homeschooling four children as a team, restoring friendship in marriage, and creating enough emotional safety for two different communication styles.
Jennifer contributes lessons from 37 years of marriage, including keeping God and one’s spouse in the right priority order, addressing hurt privately instead of letting resentment accumulate, and praying aloud together.
Key takeaways
Marriage principles discussed in the episode
- Bring major decisions to your spouse before seeking or accepting extended-family advice.
- Set boundaries with relatives without withdrawing respect, love, or appropriate counsel.
- Treat your spouse as a friend rather than discussing them with contempt in other settings.
- Recognize how cultural background can shape communication, loyalty, and family expectations.
- Create a safe place to clarify hurt, listen without immediate agreement, and resolve conflict before it accumulates.
- Protect couple time and shared spiritual practices even while raising and homeschooling children.
Chapters
Conversation chapters
Full transcript
Front Parking Spot Episode 141 transcript
Transcript note: Published with permission and formatted for readability. Speaker labels were checked against the original audio. The source transcript was automatically generated, so minor transcription errors may remain.
00:00Introduction
Hello, and welcome to the Front Parking Spot podcast. Today, we're gonna be talking about how couples can strengthen their marriage, have boundaries with relatives with grace, and creating a home where husband, wife, and children are aligned in their faith. Cannot wait for you to listen in to today's show.
00:14United Front Marriage
Stay tuned to the Front Parking Spot podcast Hello, moms. Welcome to the Front Parking Spot Podcast. I am so glad you're here. I'm Jennifer Bosma, wife, mom, grandma, former teacher for 23 years, and now a Christian children's book author and your podcast host. Are you a faith-based mom trying to live out a Christian life for your family?
Do you wanna learn more ways that you can have power over your children's spiritual growth? Inside this podcast, you will find tried and true ideas to grow in your faith and be the best wife and mom you can be. So listen in as you're cleaning up, doing the drive, or matching that sock, and be encouraged to know that God has His front parking spot set aside
for you.
Hello, moms and dads. Welcome to the Front Parking Spot Podcast. Today, I have Pesa and Whitney Shayo, and they are a married couple of 20-plus years who help cross-cultural Christian couples build a United Front through in-law tensions, loyalty conflicts, and culture clashes. Pesa has 23 years of experience in the nursing field and has published three books.
Together, they are raising four kids and homeschooling- That's it … while helping Christian couples strengthen marriage boundaries with grace, creating a home where husband, wife, and children are aligned in faith. Welcome to the Front Parking Spot Podcast.
We're glad to be here. Thank you for having us.
Oh, I, I love that you are here, and we were talking about marriage and homeschooling and all the things.
But, you know, on your tagline, y'all, and you, you can take this wherever you wanna go, but-
Yes …
on your tagline, it says, "You don't need more advice, you need a United Front." Amen. Let's talk about that. Tell us a little bit about you and your message.
02:00Boundaries With In-Laws
Amen. You know, we found out through our marriage that sometimes there's so much pressure from in-laws, the culture, so many things, and there's always a gap which you might not know that there's a gap between the husband and the wife.
And that's the gap where society or the in-laws or anything that's trying to s- separate you guys will go and, and, um-
Divide …
and divide. Mm-hmm. So if you have a United Front, and it's very hard to separate the couple.
Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
Yes.
That's, that's very important. I, I remember early on in our marriage when there would be, like, whether an in-law or something…
You know, when you're, y- you make, there's all kinds of jokes about the mother-in-law, everything, and I try not to be that mother-in-law 'cause I'm a mother-in-law now, and I'm sure my son-in-laws would say, "Oh, you're annoying sometimes." But I remember one time when my mother-in-law stepped outside sh- of bounds. Like, it was not cool.
Yeah. And my husband really had my back. He did not- Yeah … he defended me. And he stood up to his mom and told her why it was not good what she did. I don't even remember what it was. But I remember that was early on in our marriage, and my husband took my side as the wife, and that was, that was huge.
That, that is so important when one spouse is able to step in and defend the other.
Right. And so what we like to talk about is how important it is for both husband and wife to still be respectful to their in-laws- Mm-hmm … even when they are setting boundaries. 'Cause a lot of folks think, "Okay, well, you know, if, if I'm gonna be setting these boundaries, that means that, you know, I don't need to listen to any of their input, or I don't need any of their advice," and, you know, that's not what we're about.
We are really, um, just encouraging husbands and wives out there to, you know, you can still be respectful to your extended family, and you can still love them. Yeah. But at the same time, you can, you know, have a strong household. You know? Just really know what your values are as a couple and, and what the two of you stand for.
And sometimes because we are, we focus mostly on the cross-cultural Christian couples, we might find sometimes one, maybe the husband or the wife, is coming from a family where they are more collectivist. They believe in taking advice from the parents, the uncles, the aunts. They are coming from the, like, "The village raised me."
Mm-hmm. Right.
To the Western way of doing things where it's just a nuclear family. And how can you balance these two things where, yes, you are honoring your parents, but at the same time, you are saying that, "My family now, my family is the most important thing," and you're trying to find a balance there.
Mm-hmm. Right. That's huge because I do see a lot of men or I h- you know, as, as wives, and Whitney you can agree that the wives will sometimes talk like, "My husband always takes his mother's side."
Mm-hmm.
That's
right.
And I never had that 'cause my husband took my side. But what do we tell? There's a mama driving right now and she's thinking, "My husband needs to hear this because he takes way too much information or, from his, from his parents."
So Pesa, help us. What do we do?
What I would say is, and is first you have to know what's important. It's your family. It's you and your wife. Yeah. So if you're get- if, if your wife is the last one to know, if you have to go and talk to your mom or to your sisters first before you actually have this conversation with your wife, that I think that's a problem.
It's a big problem. Or if you're getting advice from other people and your wife never even knew what the conversation until the end when you're just presenting her with the, the final answer- Mm-hmm … I think that's a very big problem. I think the first thing is bring it to your wife, have the conversation, and if you agree that now we need to ask other people, she needs to be in the loop too.
That's good. That's huge. 'Cause I think a lot of couples, you know, "Oh, I don't wanna bother her or him with that." But I mean, it's so simple if you just bring up the conversation with your spouse first. First. Great advice, Pesa. Yes. Great advice.
Yes.
Wow.
And, and we see a lot where s- with, with the technology now, it's easy to have a family WhatsApp group or easy to have a family group where all this conversation are done, and the wife is out of it.
She's not part of the group, so the conversation is done, advice is given, money's sent, and then later that's when she finds out that, "Hey, you know what? We bought land somewhere-
Oh …
in another country."
Mm-hmm.
Surprise,
right?
Surprise.
Oh, boy. Mm-hmm.
Yes.
You know, and it's funny that we're, when this is aired, w- this is really cool because this is gonna be aired on July 28th, so all the listeners know if you're hearing this July 28th or after.
My 37th wedding anniversary is tomorrow, which is July 29th.
Congratulations.
Thank you. And I was, we won. I was 22. My husband was 23. We fell in love. Three daughters, five granddaughters later, here we are. And I got some great advice. Yes. And mom is listening to this. This is the best advice. And we were married in a Catholic church.
Wow. Now we were non-denominational. We go to the Church of 1122 with Joby Martin here in Jacksonville. However, but the advice we were given, we have never, ever left that advice, and this is what I tell every couple. Mm. And it was given to us by a priest, and he never even ended up marrying us because he died right before our wedding.
Oh.
He had great advice, and he lives on in our hearts with us. But the number one thing you need to keep the f- the five priority, and that is number one in your life is God all the time. Yes. He is number one in every decision that you make. Number two is your spouse. Not your family, not your parents, not your mom or dad, your spouse.
08:37Priority Order for Marriage
Number three is your children or extended family. Number four is your job, and number five is your hobby. Yes. If at any time those get out of order, that's when problems come in.
You're right.
Mm-hmm. And it is textbook. Textbook. Yes. Because I, you know, going with older kids and growing up, and I've had kids, like, when their parents were in high school, and everything was the kids, the kids, the kids.
Kids went to college. They got divorced because they didn't have each other. They didn't have each other as that priority. Yes. So that's my little advice. You c- feel- Thank you … free to add on or s- share us another piece of advice. Bye.
And I like that because you can apply it in every situation. Uh, it doesn't matter if it's in a cross-cultural area.
It's the same thing. First you have to have God, and then your wife, the person who you're building your f- your life with.
Hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm.
Yes. That, and there's, in life there's always, oh, you know what? You need to follow, you need to- When the kids are growing, there's so much focus on the kids, and sometimes it's very easy to forget that you need to take care of the family, uh, to take care of your relationship first so that you can be strong enough for, to take care of the kids now.
Yeah. Especially if it's a homeschooling family. Mm-hmm.
Oh, yeah. Yes. Talk to us a little bit about your homeschooling because four kids homeschooling, that is not an easy day. No,
it's not an easy day. It's very, very busy.
10:22Homeschooling as a Team
Right?
Um, we- What are your
ages? What are your kids' ages?
19, 15, 11, and nine.
Wow. Two girls.
So I'm impressed that you can do the 19-year-old's stuff because I, I was a teacher forever, and I was really good in third and fourth grade, fifth grade, too, but I- Yep … I was a little iffy on the lower grades. But tell us more.
Right. So the 19-year-old is heading off to college. Um, 15, she's in high school, and then we've got the two little ones in elementary school.
And it just definitely all I can say is it takes a lot of teamwork between me and their dad. It's just definitely not something that I would be able to do by myself. Mm-hmm. So.
Mm-hmm.
Now- And- Yeah. Well, how do you chime in? I, um, Pesa, are you also one of the teachers, or do you co-teach, or how does that look like?
What does it look
like? I, when it comes to math, I'm the teacher, but- Right … we have created a system where I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm basically a support.
Mm-hmm.
I, I, I guess it's co-teach or- Well,
principal
too. It, it, it-
Right.
He's the administrator.
Yes, yes.
Or her.
But, but sometimes just the fact that I'm around makes things go well.
I don't know why.
Yeah. Yeah, definitely, uh, it goes smoothly if, if Dad's around.
When we were starting out, it was very complicated because when we were starting many years ago, um- Sure … homeschooling wasn't a thing, so there was not a lot of resources. As they are right now.
Mm-hmm.
And it felt very i- we were felt very isolated, and we really needed to do a lot of work ourself.
But now there's s- there's more resources, co-ops, online resources, so it's easier even to grade the work.
Mm-hmm.
But I think as long as the couple is united- Mm-hmm … and they are seeing eye to eye, even in homeschooling, because there are some times-
Oh, yeah …
homeschooling can be very overwhelming to the point where you feel like it's time to go back to public school.
But if you can still see the bigger vision and both of you s- can see the bigger vision, it's easy to continue.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure, both of us being on the same page was a must.
Right.
Um, because, I mean, there were those really difficult days in the beginning where I was like, "Okay, you know what? That elementary school down the street- Yeah
is starting to look pretty good."
Right. "
I'm ready to send them back." Yeah. But Pesa was always the one saying, "No, we, we need to just keep doing what we're doing."
And- "
We need to continue homeschooling."
And also with that time, we could see the importance of homeschooling, but our relatives at that time could, did not see the importance of homeschooling.
So there was a lot of, they didn't have that buy-in.
Mm-hmm.
And it felt like we were basically doing it ourselves.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Right. And that, you know, and it, it could be with the person listening, you know, maybe they don't homeschool, but maybe it's a financial problem, or- Yes … maybe it's a vacation problem or not- or too much time on someone's phone, or too much time with friends or whatever.
What do you, you, I know, 'cause you have to be United Front with- Yes … homeschooling as a couple. But we're ta- you're talking about the unity zones, and- Yes … I, if we could hone back in there with recurring conflict and unity zones, can you talk a little bit about that? Because some of our moms may not homeschool, but they may have other conflict that they want to get u- get together with and unified with.
Okay. Go ahead. With the unity, you start, you have to start dating each other
Mm-hmm
And it sounds like a cliche, "Oh, go ahead and date each other," but you always have to remember, why am I with this person? Because there's a day I actually fell in love with them, and I made a choice to marry them. And if you can get yourself back to the time where we were spending more time and they were my friend
14:23Remember to Date Again
Mm-hmm
I think that's a big one.
Sometimes we forget that they were your friend first be- before they were your husband or your wife. So if I can get to the point where we can, we were friends, that means I spend more time with them, look forward to seeing them, don't go and tell my friends how lame they are or how … 'Cause sometimes when you go to work, there's a lot of stories about how bad the husband is.
Um- But you wouldn't do that to your best friend
Right
Like-
Oh, and teachers, faculty lounges are terrible at that. Yeah. I would, I would say to the teachers, "Y'all, you just need to stop-" Yeah "… talking about your husband-
Yes …
and start being a kind wife, and we don't wanna hear it." And they'd be like, "Wait, what?"
Yeah. And they wouldn't stop. But yeah, it's, if mamas- That's- If, if you're talking about your husband to your best friend or whomever, just stop Yes. Simple.
Yes. And that's the same way with the nursing station. It's the same story. It's, those are the same stories. And if, if you really think about it, if it's, if it's your best friend, you wouldn't be saying those things.
It's true.
And how can I get myself back? Because even if you s- change relationships, you will still have to make this new person your best friend. It wouldn't work And then from that point, spend more time, date them before… Because sometimes there's so much being taught or being taught where it's like, if you do these five things, everything will be great.
But we forget, did I, do I view this person as a friend?
Mm-hmm.
And can I do things to make it that they're a friend? Spend more time, give them the benefit of doubt, look forward to talking to them, send them messages, like send them text message. Do things that you'll do with your friend.
Right.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
How do you two resolve conflict? Because, I mean, my husband and I, we really don't fight much. We do get in debates, but what do you, what advice do you give couples that come to you? Like, "We're always arguing. We don't see eye to eye." What are some things you would tell that,
that family, or couples? Well, I think what Pesa said about being friends, that's probably the most important thing for us anyway.
We are willing to hear each other out. That's one of the most, um, uh, really, I think, important pieces of advice I could give, is being willing to listen and just say, "Okay, you know what? I hear you. I might not agree with you, but I do hear you."
Right. And I come from a culture where people get really spirited, and, but so we are willing to argue things out a lot.
17:08Listening Through Conflict
But Whitney, on the, on the other side, comes from a culture where they're more reserved and-
Mm-hmm. A little bit more quiet.
More quiet.
So- We don't talk as much …
so sometimes I might be looking forward to getting her point of view, but she might be thinking that I'm getting, I'm getting too pushy.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I've always had a tendency to hold back. And just say, "Okay, whatever." He, because I, I thought that he was somewhat domineering. But no, it was just a, a different communication style, honestly. Yes.
Pesa, where are you from?
O- originally, I'm from Kenya, in Africa. Kenya. Yes. In Kenya. Oh,
I love it. Yes.
I've, I've never been to Kenya, but been to Zimbabwe and, and South Africa, and, um, Zambia, and just love, love it.
Yeah. We listened to some of the, our past podcast, yes. And we liked the fact that you've been to Africa.
Yeah. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Yes. Thank you for listening. Oh, yes. Yeah. A couple times. It's, it's wonderful there.
Yes. So- Um, yeah … so with that, even just having different ways of communication, remembering that-
Mm-hmm …
it's, he's still a friend, and we can not take it to a place where we are mean to each other, but we have different communication styles. But she's still a friend, I'm still a friend, and we are trying to, to find the best way to move forward.
Instead of just writing off your spouse as an enemy.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Trying to find a win-win. Right. There you go. If- And I think it, I think it's important, too, you know, just from my being married for so long, and I've actually been with my husband for 40 years. We dated for three years before we got married.
But- Yes … what I've learned, too, is the communication component. Yes. That if I get upset or if I internalize something he said as a kind of a dig at me, I will stop him and later privately say, "Hey, when you said that, it made me feel this way." And then usually he'll be like, "Wait, I didn't mean that at all."
But it's just- There you go … airing out how it, like you internalized it or perceived it.
Yes.
Because our perception is not usually what they implied. Would you agree?
You're right. You're right.
Mm-hmm.
And having that safe space that you can actually go-
Mm-hmm …
and see that he's not your enemy, and you can talk to him like that and say, "Hey, I don't think what you said, I didn't like the way you said it."
And he can say, "Oh, you know what? I didn't mean it that way." Creating that space in a relationship is very important.
Mm. And don't hold things in. Yes. Because the longer you hold them in, then you start piling on, and then when you do have a discussion, you just, it's like a volcano.
And, and they don't even know where that came from.
Yes. It's true. They don't know where that came from. They're like, "Wait, what? What?" What, what? "What rolled over," right? You know? Aw. Well, before we finish up, and I'm gonna have you share your contact info with our audience, but do you have any other things that you really wanted to share with the women and men who are listening to this podcast today?
It's very important to be in the same team. And as much as possible, think about those days where you were dating him or you were dating her, and what were those things that you were doing that you don't do now? And can you even schedule one or two of those things and start doing them? That will really get you back to those f- moods that you were having when you decided to get married.
Yes And I think for the ladies listening out there, sometimes it's just getting yourself ready in the morning and not wearing the, the T-shirt you wore all day w- from sleeping. Put makeup on. Do the things. Like, just da- if you're dating your husband, when you were dating back in the day, you didn't go look- wearing your outfit that you slept in the night before-
21:08Rekindle Your Connection
There
you go
with, with an added bra. You don't, you didn't do that. You know? I'm just saying, keeping it real. Yes. Go and, like, make yourself, put some makeup on, do the walk, make yourself get in a good head space, and that head space with me always starts with Jesus, for sure. Yes.
Amen. Oh,
another thing I gotta share, and Louise and Squire shared this on one of my podcasts, it is the best thing for listeners, for you all, and for anyone.
Pray out loud at l- five minutes a day. In the morning, getting ready. Uh, we do it walking the beach, which is amazing 'cause we're retired now. Yeah. We get that opportunity with our dog. Yeah. And it doesn't matter, just you pray, and then the other person prays, your spouse prays, because it is- Oh, yeah
amazing. Just the… I mean, could start even one minute. Like, you don't know what you're saying. But sometimes we're like, "I'm okay. We're getting almost home now, and we're passing the neighbors. We need to wrap this up," you know?
Yes.
But praying, they gave me that advice, and we took it to heart, and it's-
Yeah, we've tried it.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah,
absolutely.
Well, how can listeners find you? Because you guys do a lot of great things, so how can they connect with you?
Uh, they can always see us, find us at liveyourbestmarriage.com.
Love it.
Or on Instagram @liveyourbestmarriage, which is L-I-V-E your best marriage.
And you guys are, like, Insta-famous.
Insta-famous. Yeah. You're like… I'm like, whoa, you guys are, you guys are big in the Instagram world, so your advice is being heard. And to have you-
We, we love, love all the DMs we get there, and a lot of people need… There's a lot of families needing help, and we love what you're doing, too.
Aw. Yes. Thank you, Pesa.
Whitney, you guys are such a blessing. Thank you for being on the show today. I like to say when- whenever you have tech problems or whatever kind of problems before you get on, God has a plan for that podcast because this message is going to touch the hearts of moms and dads listening wherever they're at.
23:03Find Pesa and Whitney Online
Maybe they're driving back from a long summer vacay, getting ready for school to start. But thank you for being here today.
Thank you, Jennifer. Thank you for having us.
We enjoyed being here.
Well, mamas, thank you so much for joining in. I know you are super busy doing all the things that can consume your day, but you took a couple of minutes to learn how God wants to build you up in your faith, family, and life.
And he wants to applaud you for this. Please subscribe and review my show. This helps other moms tune in as well. I'd love to connect with you on Instagram at Front Parking Spot, on Facebook at Front Parking Spot Mom Community, or on my website at jenniferbosma.com. Have an Ephesians 3:20 type of day, mamas, and be encouraged as you go for the front parking spot in your life today.
God bless
Credits and links
About this podcast appearance
Front Parking Spot Podcast is hosted by Jennifer Bosma and offers faith-centered encouragement for Christian wives, mothers, and families. This transcript remains connected to the original episode on Front Parking Spot.
Learn more about Pesa Shayo, explore his books, or see more podcast appearances. Pesa and Whitney’s marriage resources are available from Live Your Best Marriage.