Boundaries, Culture, and Family: Finding Unity in Marriage

00:00:00

Hi, everybody. Welcome to Life Stories podcast, People Helping People. I'm Shara Goswick, your host. My guests today are Whitney and Pesa Shayo. Whitney and Pesa have developed Live Your Best Marriage, where they help cross-cultural Christian couples build a united front. This is an issue that many couples. face, but you don't hear about it being counseled or talked about or celebrated even very often.

00:00:37

I found it very interesting when I read up on what they are doing, and I think it's so important. You know, marriage is hard. Marriage is not easy for anybody. It doesn't matter if you're from the same culture or not. But imagine having two separate families from two separate countries who have two totally different set of beliefs and ideals and ways they think that you should do things.

00:00:58

and here you're trying to build a united front but you've got all these other voices wanting to honor and respect your families at the same time that doesn't make marriage any easier so i love what they're doing i think it's very important you can go to their website and take their quiz it's a free quiz online and then if you choose to have them coach you in your marriage they're happy to do so this was a wonderful conversation if you know someone that might be encouraged by this maybe they're in the same situation

00:01:28

I ask you to send it to them. Thanks for being here. Pesa and Whitney, thank you so much for being here today. I was very intrigued by what I read about you on PodMatch because this is not something that, you know, you hear about all the time. But obviously, this happens all the time.

00:01:46

You minister to Christian couples who have cross-cultural differences. Say that five times fast. Obviously, that happens a lot, but it's not something that you hear about often. And I don't hear about that kind of teaching or counseling or whatever with families. So tell me your story. How did you get involved in this?

00:02:05

And why are you wanting to help other couples? Yeah, well, first of all, thank you for having us. Absolutely. And you are absolutely right. There are not enough resources out there for cross-cultural couples. And that's one of the reasons why we do this. We like to get out there and tell our story just to inspire other couples.

00:02:26

who may be in a similar situation, and they might not be able to get this, you know, tailored information anywhere else. We've been married for 22 years, and we are homeschooling our four girls. When we first met, I, well, I'm from Kansas, and he's from Kenya. Yes. Okay.

00:02:50

So when he graduated nursing school in Kansas, this, he ended up getting a job where I was working. And so we just hit it off really, really well at that point. And here we are. Here you are. Well, let me just ask this. When you first were married, when you were first dating, we were married, did you all face some cultural differences and issues in your families?

00:03:14

Yeah, we did. But for some reason, at that time, we did not think anything about it because at that time, we just believed as long as we love each other. Just like any couple, as long as you love each other, you'll be able to overcome everything. After we got married, some of those issues started getting like, like became a bigger deal, like the type of food.

00:03:39

Whose culture should we follow in the home? Because, so I'm in America and she's very curious and very nice, but sometimes without knowing we might be just following the American way. without just even paying in any consideration to where, like, with my culture or even my point of view.

00:04:00

But it wasn't like she meant it. It's just how it was, yeah. Yeah, I would think that probably happens a lot, you know, without meaning to, you're just used to doing things a certain way. One of the things that I read that y'all work with, and I can see this being an issue, is cultural differences in your families.

00:04:20

Y'all may be fine and work things out, but your family may feel. one way and your family may feel another. Is that a very common problem that you see couples face? It is. And for us personally, we've had a lot of experience with that. When we were having our first baby, we could not agree on what to name her. Oh, because in Kenya, there's a tradition for naming. They, you know, they go in order of, you know, whoever's turn it is, if it's grandma, if it's auntie. And I believe that I'm the mother and I should pick the name.

00:04:53

for the baby. And so, although this might not sound like a big deal, but it really was. Yeah, I can see that. My in-laws, you know, I think they really thought maybe I was just trying to get rid of their tradition. Yeah. So. So how did that go?

00:05:12

Did you pick the name for the baby? We end up actually just showed, we end up working together. So she ended up picking the first name. And then so we pick the second and then the family name. So for all our kids, that's how we ended up doing.

00:05:33

The first name she comes up with and then second name is just named after our tradition. So we don't lose our tradition. But at the same time, she also is naming the baby. That is good. There you go. And that's probably something you've had to learn to do a lot of is wanting to be respectful, but at the same time, you know, having boundaries.

00:05:54

And I'm assuming boundaries are a big deal. And when working with these other families, that's something that's hard. It's hard to set and it's hard to, you know, abide by. And so I can imagine in what you, you know, working with other couples, that's probably an issue as well, I would think.

00:06:11

Yeah. Especially if one side of the family, like my side, that when they believe that we have gained, that she has been married to us, so we have gained a wife. So now they feel like without knowing a lot of relatives, I want to voice their opinion. And they are not just kind of tiptoeing around it.

00:06:31

They're just saying what they think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. What are some other issues that you work with couples on, some other issues that they face? Well, we developed a framework called the United Front. And it really, I mean, it can be here. used by anybody. I mean, it, you know, it works for for everyone, but specifically for cross-cultural couples, it just seems to, you know, more issues seem to come up with in-laws, you know, because of the language differences and just so many different cultural expectations. And so what I really

00:07:11

love is Pesa explains that the couple gets to have the conversation first. And basically what that means is anytime there's an issue, a boundary, anything with in-laws that comes up, the husband and wife get to discuss it first privately, and then they will share their answer with the rest of the family.

00:07:34

And so really what it boils down to is, you know, we will always appear as a united front. We are always on the same team in front of everybody else. I mean, there are times when we might disagree in privates, but publicly. you know, we are a united front. I think that is so important. And I love that y'all are teaching people how to do that because you have to be a united front. You may not agree. My husband and I are so different. We are so different. We like different things. We respond differently. We think differently. But we're a great team. We work together very

00:08:09

well. And we will be a united front in whatever, you know, we face. But I can see how that helps. Set those And when you're firm in that, I can see that that has got to help your marriage. Tell me how it works. When people, couples come to you, how does the process work in wanting to work with y'all?

00:08:30

So when they come to us and they want to having some coaching, the first thing we do is they need to take the United Front quiz, which is a free quiz, which is available at our website. And once they take the quiz, they'll be able to know where they are having.

00:08:48

having gaps in connection and where they need to be working on, is it in-laws, is it something to do with connection, just whatever is the issue that they are dealing with? And then from that point, now we can be able to come up with a customized plan and work with them. And sometimes just being aware where there's a shortcoming when it comes to how connected they are and how united they are. Some people can just take that. They are aware now, and now they are able to start using that, just figuring out their own way forward because they know what to focus on.

00:09:26

Yeah, that's so good. What does, you know, you mentioned behind the scenes, you may not agree, but, you know, you're putting on this united front. How does, how does healthy communication look when you don't agree? When you, you are very firm in how you feel and you're very firm in how you feel, and You're very firm in how you feel, but how can you communicate with your spouse when you're not in agreement?

00:09:48

So that's something that comes up and we deal with because I am very direct and sometimes Whitney is very… A lot more quiet. More quiet, but at the same time, we are able to, each person's view is considered as we are coming up with decisions. So the first thing is just to remember that we are friends.

00:10:10

that one thing like we are friends and as I remind Whitney reminds me is we are not enemies that is very important because once you remember that we are friends you can give each other the benefit of doubt yeah so she might say something and I'm like no I don't really think she meant it that way maybe I just took it the wrong way maybe it came out the wrong way so I'm willing to listen and give her the benefit of doubt.

00:10:41

So, yes, communication is important, but remembering that there's that friendship and just working in a marriage all the time to build that friendship, I think that can conquer a lot of problems that people have if they remember that they are friends and they just act like friends. That is true.

00:11:02

For couples that are in a cross-cultural marriage, do you recommend them having certain conversations before they become issues. Do you recommend them talking some things out? What are, what are some of those things you recommend they, they hit before it becomes a problem? We do actually. We encourage couples to sit and ask each other questions. It can be about anything food. It can be about language. It can be about how they grew up. And basically just staying curious that is, I think, probably one of the best things you can do. If you're

00:11:37

If you have that curiosity and you're willing to learn, you know, a little bit about their background and where they came from, it, you know, I just, I think that's really important. Yeah. And also just knowing, like, asking about, like, some of the expectations, because sometimes coming from two different cultures, you might be having expectations, maybe to take care of your siblings, maybe to help your parents because they, they help to come to.

00:12:07

this country. So just being open with the expectations. Also being open with, okay, especially money, for most couples, they might be having money issues and money is a big problem. But sometimes when you're bringing two different cultures, money is not just about budgeting and the amount. Now it becomes, okay, if I say no to a money request from relatives, it might show that I'm a bad son or I'm a bad kid. So there's so many expectations and so many layers when it comes to money. It's not just the cut and dry. This is the amount. Can we afford it or can't we afford it? There's just

00:12:50

other things. And it's good to talk about it. Yeah, I read in some of your information that you talked about how some of these popular issues, money and parenting and different things, aren't always about those subjects. Sometimes it's rooted in something else and that's just how it comes out. We've been married 34 years and I 100% agree with that. It looks like one thing, but really it's something else. I totally agree with that. What would you say to you from the beginning of your marriage? You know, I know you've learned a lot in working with other couples

00:13:24

and just being married as long as you have. What is something you wish you could go back and say to your first married selves or dating selves? I would say, I would remind myself that everything I know is not the only way to do something. And I should not just always focus on being right or doing things the right way, but being curious and ask and be okay to listen to what, like, Whitney's point of view. And also be okay to know that although she's doing, she might be doing things differently, that does not mean it's wrong. It's just she's seeing

00:14:01

things a different way. Right. Yeah. I agree with that. I think I definitely would tell myself, Whitney, you don't need to be right about everything because you're not right. Yeah, are not always right. We all need to remember that. Absolutely. What would you say to somebody listening that feels like they're caught in the middle between, you know, you've brought this up several times between their family and between their spouse and they want to be respectful to both, but they feel like they are alone in this.

00:14:35

How could you encourage them today? This is a hard one. I can encourage them that the first thing is to start working on being united with their spouse. Because if they can work on that, the second step, which is transferring loyalty from their family of origin to this new family that they are building will be much easier.

00:14:59

So start building that friendship and loyalty, that friendship with your family. spouse, and for some couples, it can be very hard, but if you can remember those great days when you are dating and you are getting ready to get married, if you can have those text messages, emails, pictures, and you're just looking at them, you can bring you back to that state of excitement and you'll start viewing your wife as a friend. You can start from there.

00:15:32

I love that. Yes. Do you have anything to add, Whitney? I think if they can start viewing the family that they're building, you know, as more of a priority. And I know, you know, leave and cleave, but still be able to honor their extended family. You know, there's a way of doing that.

00:15:50

You can still leave and cleave, you know, be close to your, your spouse and have your, you know, your nuclear family. But also at the same time, you can still be respectful to, you know, all of your extended family as well. Sure. Absolutely. So tell people your website. I'll have it listed for everyone and all the notes and everything else, but tell people your website and how they can get in touch with you and what you'll do when you work with them.

00:16:15

Well, you can find us at liveyourbestmarriage.com. And we've got a big button there, I think, right on the front where you can take the free audit. It's a free quiz. It doesn't take very long. And if for whoever wishes to, if they want further help, they can they can inquire about our coaching program.

00:16:35

And I'm happy to hear from them. Are you, is this done online? Do you meet with people everywhere? Or is this something that's in person that you do? Everything is done online. Online, okay. Awesome. Have you had people from all over the place? Yep. That is the coolest thing about technology.

00:16:53

Sometimes it drives me crazy. But I love it. I've talked to people all over the world. I just think it's amazing that we get to do that. I love it. And sometimes it's like you can't even believe somebody can just be listening to just regular, like regular old hours, like the way, we can't even visit that.

00:17:13

How did you find us? I know. It's amazing. I think this is really important. As a Christian and as, you know, someone, we've been married 34 years and we were married a month after we graduated high school. We had already had a baby. So we had everything wrong starting for us in the very beginning.

00:17:34

But we're still here and we're here because of the grace of God and because we've worked very hard, both of us have. So marriage is not easy. And when you add extra things like different cultures and, you know, different families who believe different things, that doesn't make it any easier.

00:17:51

So I respect and admire so much what you're doing because I think it's so important. We enjoy talking to you. Like I said, I'm excited to share this. So thank you so much for both being guys. today. Thank you for having us, Shara. Thank you. Absolutely. I will be in touch soon. Thank you.

00:18:10

All right. Enjoy your day. You too. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thanks for listening to Life Stories podcast. There are a few ways you can support me so that I can continue putting out great content. You can like and share this episode. Send it to a friend that you think might be encouraged by it. Subscribe to my channel, whichever format you're listening to, and tell people about my podcast. You can also buy me a virtual coffee. The link is below and it's also at the bottom of my website. Every donation helps me continue doing what I'm

00:18:38

doing. Thanks for being here.