Building a United Front: Marriage, Family Pressure and Cultural Differences with Pesa Shayo.

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Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Conversation With Sarah Lee, where we explore the conversations that inspire personal groups, meaningful relationships, and stronger lives. Today guest is Pesa Shayo, an author and co-founder of Live Your Best Marriage. Pesa helps cross-cultural pristine coppers, navigate in low pressure, loyalty conflicts, cultural differences, and communication challenges while building greater unity in their marriages. Through his book, podcast, and marriage resources, Pesa helps coppers stop turning against each other and learn how to face outside pressure as one thing. I'm Suwan Tengen, Pesa. Welcome to the show. It's

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It's a pleasure to be here with us. Thank you very much, Sarah. I'm very happy to be here today. Thank you so much for that, Pesa. So yeah, some questions I'll be asking you for the interview. My first question goes like this. So Pesa, what does it really mean for it to be a United Front?

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So for a couple to be a United Front, it means that when they're having conversations with the outside world, they are on the same page. And what we mean is, just for example, when they are talking to their kids, this is an easy example, they should be on the same page because kids, for example, know very well when mom and dad are not on the same page, so they will always go and pick.

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You know, if I want something, I'm gonna go and ask mom because I know if I ask dad, he's gonna say no. The kids already know that mom and dad are always gonna give us two different answers. So when you are dealing with other people like in-laws, outside people in their family, they also know that if I talk to the wife, I'm going to get a different answer.

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If I talk to the husband, I'm going to get a different answer. And they can use that to manipulate the two of you. So the best thing is behind closed doors, have the conversation, decide first before you go out because from that point it doesn't matter who they talk to.

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They are getting the same answer. Why can family prayer become such a serious source of conflict in marriage? Especially like we deal with a lot of cross-cultural couples, couples from different cultures and And we always say that they did not invent these problems. These problems are already in different marriages, like problems with in-laws, problems with money, problems with raising kids. But the fact that they're coming from two different cultures makes it that now Now we are adding more, another thing into the problems because now they're having different meanings to the conversation.

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Maybe they are not speaking the same language. They have different meanings as they translate these conversations. Also in laws one might be thinking a certain way because that's how they were raised but now you bring another person who came from a different culture They are raised differently and that will also bring up a different perspective into the conversation

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So in cross-cultural marriage, what do some of the biggest challenges couple face? Some of the biggest challenges is what we call having two different common senses and for example, if you're from the same place, what you can say, that makes sense because that is just common sense. But if you are coming from two different countries or two different cultures, what do you think is common sense?

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Might not be common sense to your spouse. For example where I come from, we enjoy like… We enjoy eating lots of goat meat And I also think, I used to believe that on a great occasion if it's a big party or something we have to have goat meat Okay? That sounds like okay Until I went to my wife's side and they don't even have never tasted goat meat that was seen as very different and I was like how is this even possible that people cannot even enjoy and when they gave it to them

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they did not like the taste which on my end I felt like even offended because I was so happy to give them to taste it but on their end it didn't even taste right It was too hard So something like that might be seem like not a big deal But some of the, for example foods It's not just food, it has an identity. It means something to that person.

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Maybe that's how their parents used to cook it, their mom used to prepare it and when it's being rejected they feel like they are also being rejected as a person but the other person is not really rejecting them as a person but that's how they might take it so things like that might bring more problems than necessary It's something that we need to address.

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there was living and cleaving and the two become one. But at the same time, also coming from the Bible, we also teach that the fifth commandment says you need to honor your parents. So we are having two issues. The two of you become one and you create your new family And at the same time, you need to honor your parents For example, yes, you're putting more attention to your family that you are creating Yes, you are putting more attention to your family, but at the same time that does not mean you need to cut off your parents or you need to disrespect them.

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So you always have to balance the two and it might mean that you just have to be more creative because you're trying to have two things at the same time. So what should your spouse do when they feed their partner is choosing your family over the marriage? And this is very important and we call that there has to be a loyalty transfer.

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You are transferring the loyalty from your family of origin to your new family. So now you are not just loyal to your family of origin, you are loyal to a new family that you're creating So if every time there's an issue, you are choosing your family of origin, that is a big problem For example, it might happen like maybe in a WhatsApp group where maybe there's an aunt who's always making fun of somebody's wife and the wife.

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Because they are not from their culture, it's just that they are married and now the aunt is making fun of the wife. We believe it's very important that the son in that group should say, do not make fun of my wife. Make it very clear that you are loyal to your wife and you're not going to tolerate these kind of jokes.

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Most people are not able to do that because they will even tell me, I can't do it because I cannot choose my family over my family of origin because blood is thicker than water. And sometimes we kind of forget that the way your family of origin was created is your parents came together and created this family that you're calling your family of origin.

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It started somewhere. And that's the same thing you're doing with you because your creating a new family. As much as you are afraid of being too sired for your own family, you feel confident that it can be made possible for U.S. So that's why you choose your family of origin because if you really feel confident to make this work your going to be very clear.

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So, Peter, Alconcobel sets L.D. boundaries with parents on illars, Without Creating Resentment.

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conversation with the family. Also, we teach that the kid from that family, so if it's my side of the family, I'm the one who's supposed to go and talk. If it's my wife's side of the family, she's supposed to talk to her side of the family, so that we are just not putting each other in difficult situations. But creating resentment, now we are crossing the line and we are trying to manage the other people's emotions. They also can decide if they are resentful or not, okay? But we can be respectful. We can approach this conversation

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with a lot of respect. And for example, in some cultures, it's very hard to go and talk to the father, to the dad, face to face. I mean, it's just seen as very disrespectful that you can tell your dad that, hey, I'm gonna have a meeting with you to tell you how I expect to be treated.

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In some families, that's very disrespectful. Maybe you need to talk to his brother, your uncle. Maybe you need to talk to your mother. and then she's gonna talk to him. You can do all those things but at the same time if he decides to be

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offended and having grudges and that's on his end and he has to grow and deal with that issue but on our end we will make sure that we are respectful. He also has something to play here Which is, he is going to choose his response.

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So, what communication mistakes often make cultural differences worse? Some of the communication mistakes we've seen and also we've gone through is not pausing and remembering that this that my spouse is still my friend and this means is because if you if you still remember that they are your friend you will be able to give them the benefit of doubt.

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When you're dealing with a lot of people from different cultures, sometimes the way some words might be said may come out too rough or too offending but you might not have meant it that way. But that's how it came out like. or you might have said something but you did not use the right word.

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So your partner might be taking it the wrong way. But if they remember that we are still friends and we are in this together, they're more likely to ask, they're more likely to be more curious and say what did you mean by that? Okay, okay. And then you can be able to explain what really happened.

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So, although you're asking a question about communication, we feel like forgetting that your friends, forgetting that she's not your enemy can make communication very hard because you are not likely to give them the benefit of doubt which sometimes that's what's needed So how can couples handle situations when their cultural values of family expectations strongly conflict?

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sometimes you might be raised in a place where you expected there is an expectation that you will go back home and maybe build a house for your parents or you'll go back home and take care of the little siblings. That is an expectation, and maybe your spouse does not even know that that is there or maybe they are just thinking in terms of okay we don't have enough money so we cannot send money this month. So if there's a conflict I think the most important thing is to remember that we can work this out if we still remember that we are still, I go back again. We are not

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enemies. We are friends. We can find a solution. I think what happens in most couples is they start Fighting against each other instead of trying to fight against the problem. And the reason why they are fighting against each other is they forget that they are on the same team.

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So yes, the expectations might be new. The expectations might be

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different. And one of the spouses might not even have appreciated how much it's going to take to go and maybe go and take care of a family member of things like that and that was an expectation maybe their husband was supposed to go and do but as long as they are willing to work together they will be able to be creative and find ways to handle the situation but most will forget that they need to work together and start constantly fighting each other and that's where where the problems always start.

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pressure? Yes, that's a good question. Faith is very important to us and we believe the fact that it's faith-based It makes you more humble It makes you More willing to listen and you are not angry with your spouse The person who you chose to spend the rest of your life with so yes with being faith based Faith-based, I believe that actually puts it give you a higher standard because now you are willing to listen and you're more humble as you are working and finding the best way to move forward.

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If you are not faith based, I feel like you are more likely to cut them off and you are more likely to say, you know what? I'm going to find somebody else. You are not looking for a solution. So what can couples do when the same family conflicts continue to come back?

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Yes, the same family conflict if they are still coming back. It just reminds us that either the way we are handling the situation is not helping. Sometimes I might hear oh you know what it's my mother-in-law every time it's my mother-in-law And I would say if it's always an issue with your mother-in-law, so it might mean that it's just telling me that that's just a symptom of another problem.

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The problem is that you too are not united on how to handle the situation because in a In a way, you are playing a game and the game is… the mother-in-law is messing us up. That's just the game you're playing. But if you guys, the two of you are on the same page, you can say, okay we don't want to play this game.

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We are not going to engage her. If she sends those messages, if she calls us, we might not accept the call until we are able to find our way forward. Sometimes we hear stories where the same problem is people are taking their kids to their mother-in-law and I don't want to blame the mother-in-law only but sometimes they take their kids to the grandparents for babysitting so that they can watch them as they're going to work.

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But some things might be happening in that house, which they might not like. Maybe the food that they are being fed, or somebody smoking, or the TV shows are being watched. They are watching there. They might not approve of them. So every day you're complaining, but you're not doing something about it. Maybe you need to address it with the mother-in-law or with her grandparents. And at the same time, you need to also appreciate that if they say, no, it's my house, I'm gonna do whatever I want.

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You also have to have another alternative to change, to say, okay, no, okay, fine, that's fine. We are not gonna bring the kids here versus continuing every time playing this game of my in-laws, my grandparents, all these people are still constantly violating the boundaries, but we are still playing that game.

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Basically, it's a game you're playing. So what is one conversation every couple should have before family prejudice that damages their relationship?

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I think it's very important to always remind each other that you are on the same team. And, and I always go back to couples who are about to get married because they're so happy and excited and they're just looking forward to being together. It's just such a great time but after you get married things go downhill.

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So if you can bring the same energy that you had before God you get married It's a really good energy to have. So one conversation you can bring, you can have is To remind each other that hey, we are still the same couple that was so excited To get married. You can look at the pictures that you guys were taking on like maybe the selfies you are taking then The text messages you are sending it to each other the SMS you're sending to each other and the videos you are taking with each other.

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Those can always bring you back to that time that you were very excited about life, about being together because once you get back to that, that you remember that this is the same person, now it's easy to bring that friendship. So the conversation is, can we have that friendship that we had before we got married?

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Because so it was there, That's why you got married. And then, as friends it is easy to deal with the pressure that we are getting from life really. Thank you so much for your conversation I really do appreciate it. So here's the last question of our interview. For couples who currently feel divided by family or cultural pressure what is the first step you would encourage them to take?

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The first step is create a united front. Be on the same page, okay? You will not be able to deal with outside pressure if both of you are fighting each other. So find ways to be on the same page and all these will be brought first by connection. Find ways to connect.

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It might mean maybe you spend more time in the evening together just to bring that energy, the excitement back together. Maybe when she's calling you, when you're answering the phone, answer with so much excitement because you are trying to tell yourself that you are happy to listen to her.

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Once you do all these things and add this connection it's easy to start dealing with Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and giving us practical insights into building unity, and the setting of healthy boundaries and strengthening marriages in the face of outside pressure. This has been a meaningful conversation, thank you so much for that, Pesa.

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And also thanks to everyone listening. If you enjoyed this episode be sure to subscribe share this conversation with someone who could benefit from hate and join us next time for another inspiring episode of conversation with Sarah Lee. So, Pesa before we go can you tell the audience of listening to us, Adika, is this your work?

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Yes, thank you very much. They can always find us at liveyourbestmarriage.com, which is L-I-V-E, L-I-V-E, yourbestmarriage.com and there they'll be able to come and take what we call United Front Quiz. It takes two to three minutes it's free and they will be able to see where they need to work on, to be more united in their marriage.