Podcast appearance
Cross-Cultural Christian Marriage: How Couples Can Handle Culture Clashes Without Losing Unity
Sophia Arutere and Pesa Shayo explore the everyday misunderstandings, family expectations, and communication habits that shape cross-cultural Christian marriage.
- Podcast
- The Wholesome You
- Host
- Sophia Arutere
- Published
- Guest
- Pesa Shayo
Listen
The Wholesome You
Episode overview
About this conversation
Sophia Arutere and Pesa Shayo explore the everyday misunderstandings, family expectations, and communication habits that shape cross-cultural Christian marriage.
The conversation covers pesa and whitney's cross-cultural marriage story, provision, emotional connection, and listening, in-laws and hidden cultural expectations, handling holidays and family decisions, boundaries that honor parents and protect marriage, seeing your spouse as a teammate, rebuilding trust and daily connection.
Key takeaways
Marriage principles discussed
- Pesa and Whitney's cross-cultural marriage story.
- Provision, emotional connection, and listening.
- In-laws and hidden cultural expectations.
- Handling holidays and family decisions.
- Boundaries that honor parents and protect marriage.
- Seeing your spouse as a teammate.
- Rebuilding trust and daily connection.
Chapters
Conversation chapters
- Introduction and guest background
- Pesa and Whitney's cross-cultural marriage story
- Provision, emotional connection, and listening
- In-laws and hidden cultural expectations
- Handling holidays and family decisions
- Boundaries that honor parents and protect marriage
- Seeing your spouse as a teammate
- Rebuilding trust and daily connection
Full transcript
The Wholesome You transcript
Transcript note: Published with permission and formatted for readability. This transcript was automatically generated from the original public recording or caption track. Speaker names are omitted where the source did not identify them, and minor transcription errors may remain.
00:00Introduction and guest background
Welcome to the host of you. It's a pleasure to have you Pesa. Just give me a few moments.
All right, yeah. Welcome to those from you today I'm joined by Pesa Shayo, author and co-founder
of Live Your Best Marriage. Pesa is passionate about helping cross-cultural Christian couples build
stronger, healthier marriages by navigating cultural differences, family expectations
and communication challenges with unity and faith. Pesa it's a pleasure to have you with us.
Thank you very much Sophia thank you for having me and I'm really looking forward to
talk with you and see how I can just give you some ideas about personal growth and how we can
and become better people in marriage.
Thank you so much for joining us.
So, the story behind your mission,
what inspired you to start Live Your Best Marriage?
Thank you for asking that question.
So again, I'm originally from Kenya
and my wife is American
and we've been married for about more than 20 years
and through that time we have been able to weather a lot of storms in our marriage
and that's how we decided to start helping Christian couples, especially the ones who
come from different cultures, start working together to become more of a
united front because there is a lot of expectations from different cultures in
laws who they are going to be loyal to, boundaries, how to set boundaries and
How has your cross-cultural marriage shaped the work you do today?
process, I found out that my wife, although I was quote-unquote providing, she was feeling very alone
and just not part of a marriage. And we got to a point that she was ready to divorce.
And at that time, I did not know because the way I was raised, I was actually
and I was really emotionally disconnected from my wife.
Because at this time there was no affair or any public scandal, but simply I just became disconnected because I was providing.
And this, her saying that she's ready to live, really forced me to understand that just taking care of bills is not the same as taking care of my marriage.
Life also needs more of my attention, more of my honesty and confidence that she can know
that I'm always going to be on her side.
And we are just not two roommates in the house.
Yes.
Great.
Why do strong marriages still struggle?
What are some of the biggest challenges couples face today?
What do you think some of the biggest challenges couples face?
because marriages are suffering from lack of being aware that what are the expectations that I'm supposed,
like she's coming with and I'm coming with. And without good communications and putting all this information out there,
we might not really know that we are fighting against each other.
and at the same time, one thing I've also realized is when couples disagree,
one of their biggest problem is they end up fighting against each other instead of being a united front
and start facing the problem together.
So that's like a little nuance but I think that's one of the biggest problems we are having in marriages today.
Okay, I also feel communication should be like a set goal for every couple. So what do you think about that?
Yes, I think that is very important to communicate and then going deeper in the communication if your wife is talking to you are you gonna be defensive?
because the way I was raised, I was in a way telling the truth and not always being defend…not telling the truth was normal
and being always defensive. If somebody stops saying something about you, you are always finding a way to defend yourself
Always defending yourself. You cannot just keep quiet and listen to what they're saying
You're always thinking, okay are they attacking me?
So as much as we are communicating being able to listen, being able to stop defending yourself
for no reason and as an African man learn to apologize.
That's a big one too there so it's part of communication but I feel like remembering that
you can do wrong and you can apologize too.
Why do small issues often turn into recurring conflicts?
What do you think?
So sometimes those small issues will turn into recurring conflict because
you are not aware that, okay this is happening. Am I aware
that we've been fighting about the same thing for the last five years and
at the same time, why is it that we are fighting about the same thing? Or maybe it's because
every time we have this conversation about the in-laws he or she ends up taking their side
instead of saying okay we are making this decision together. Or we're having this argument all the
and the time is because maybe other people from outside our marriage are actually coming into our marriage and making decisions for us.
So sometimes it's very important to pause, okay, why we're having this argument for a long time?
And what can we do as we are working together to deal with this situation?
So being aware is very important
Thank you very much
Thank you, grandmother
I really got a lot of…
I believe where you said
You have to
sometimes
take your time and really
discourse and talk about
why those issues are reoccurring
It's very important
At the end of the day
you might just feel you've sorted that
issue and then it comes back up again
and the more it's of course, the more it gets for stretching and
yes, yes. Just for example, sometimes like around Christmas time, you might be having
the same arguments around the holidays because maybe especially if it's a
cross-cultural marriage, maybe one person, maybe my wife expects holidays to be just
and the kids.
And I'm raised to think that holidays are for everybody, mom, dad, kids, uncle, cousins, basically
the whole neighborhood.
So now that becomes an issue because I want to do…
Now I'm like okay how can…
Why we having this holiday that's really not a real holiday?
And she's like, this is a great holiday!
We just asked by ourselves.
So that can actually be a big problem. And unless I'm very intentional, say okay maybe you are raised differently.
Like I had a story about a friend who was saying that every time the wife would ask him
09:26Pesa and Whitney's cross-cultural marriage story
Do you think we need new furniture? Should you like also help me choose the furniture?
He was always saying, now you go ahead and choose the furniture.
So she just goes in, decorates the home.
And then one day he is upset because he never gets to choose anything.
Because the house does not look like what he wanted.
She's coming from a place where she has to ask him.
And there has to be communication.
He's coming from a place where even if he says no, he is supposed to be taken to the store and
made to do something. Even if he said no, that no is not a real no. You should just ignore it and
yeah so that becomes a big problem and she yeah she's coming from a place where if you say no
What unique strength do cultural marriages have?
is you are connecting people who in all times they will be maybe enemies, but now you are bringing them together and you are basically bringing everybody in the world more closer to each other.
Because now you have in-laws from different countries, you're trying different foods, different cultures.
and cultures. So instead of the usual looking down at people or fighting people, now you're
actually connecting more people by marriage. Yes, I'm getting to understand them because
now you are a family so you get to understand them, you get to see their own point of view.
That's very important. How can couples embrace cultural differences
instead of fighting over them?
I think the first thing is having open-minded, being open-minded and also
believe that each culture is equal.
And what I mean is some people believe like, okay, because you are in my country
then we will go by the culture here.
You will have to learn my language.
you will have to act the way we act here.
But sometimes, yes when I'm outside the house
that makes sense because you're in another country
and need to act the way people act in that country.
But when you are not in your house
or in your own home
I believe the two cultures should be equal
and that would prevent a lot of problems.
One, when you literally are like
okay your holidays are no better than my holidays
we will find a way to make it work. Your food is no better than my food, we'll just make it work.
Yes that's strange because I've had people who basically from probably different
religions got married and one they are celebrating this the other they are not celebrating that
and sometimes those things bring issues. And I believe this interview would also help to reach out to these persons or people that are in such situation, if I may call it that,
and be more open-minded.
Yes, just as a quick example, there was a time when our kids were little,
when our first daughter was born, Whitney my wife believed that because she's the mom
and she gave birth to a child, she is supposed to name the kid.
make sense but where we came from, we named kids after relatives. So we name
after my grandma I name after my so there is like a list of ladies if it's a girl
who are supposed to be named. So doesn't make a big deal until you are
dealing with two cultures now. So eventually we had to come to an agreement
that she will pick the first name, I'll pick the second and then the last name is
and the first name she's going to pick, the second name I'll pick.
That sounds very easy right now but during that time there was a lot of back and forth
because me and my family we thought will pick the names
because I don't know why we thought, right now it doesn't make sense
but at that time it really made so much sense that we will be the one to pick
and we will be the one to pick. And she also thought like, okay hey this is my daughter I'm gonna pick the name.
You know it's more like something you have been taught from childhood,
something that has imbibed in you and probably your whole cultural people
and it makes sense because you have just been within your people.
So when you go outside that environment, like you rightly said,
I rightly said it's always very good to be open-minded. Once you're open-minded, you get to learn more and you get to see people's point of view and understand better.
Yes.
Okay, and you were about saying something?
No, I say you are right. That's basically being open-minded and just knowing that there is another culture that we will make it equal to yours
and we will find a way to make those two work.
Can be a big issue.
Okay, and the in-laws' pressure and boundaries.
Yes.
Why do in-laws' relationships create tension in so many marriages?
You know, the simple thing, and it took me a long time to understand is
The in-law problems usually don't really, they are not really about the in-law. It's just it actually shows that me and my wife are not united because the in-laws when they bring let's say they're suggesting that you guys have to come on this day.
You guys will have to take the kids to this school, or whatever they suggest.
If I'm saying you know what, yeah but my wife doesn't want it,
I just told them that me and my wife are not united.
Or if she goes and says you know what mom? We'll do it but Pesa really…
I don't think Pesa would like it. That really shows that we are not united.
and the most important thing is we have to be used to saying,
We are not going to do it.
Or let me ask him,
Let's talk about it first and then we'll respond.
As long as we're showing that we have some sort of unity
And when we talk to the in-laws,
We are coming as one
You know what? We are not coming for the event
I think we should always call before you come
or we don't want the kids to watch that show
I've got issues
It's okay
So just to finish what I was saying
Certain boundaries and in-laws problems are usually just
it's a symptom of
The fact that we as a couple are not united and once we get united and we're working together as United Front
Those in-laws problems really go away
Ok, and just to trip in like you said right Lee
When somebody, be it your in-laws, friends or any particular family member and they are making any suggestion
I believe that when you have, when you and your spouse are united
18:52Provision, emotional connection, and listening
It's difficult for somebody's opinion to come first
You could consider it but you can consider it together
Yes, you consider it together and you also know that the fact that yes they are giving
us their opinion but eventually we will have to make the decision and we will live with what
we decided.
Okay how can Coppu set healthy boundaries while still honoring their families?
Perfect. So most people are afraid to set boundaries because they believe that saying
not to anybody will make them selfish, make them very
disrespectful to their parents and very disloyal but also what sometimes
when you don't say no, you also bring a lot of resentment
inside your marriage so I believe that you can be very respectful
with your parents, but at the same time you are telling them no very respectfully.
But you are making sure that they are not controlling what goes on in your marriage.
So we are not saying oh because you're doing united, you're united with your spouse or
you're doing a united front now you need to go around disrespecting your parents or your
with your uncles, your aunts. No no no no. We are saying you can be very respectful.
Okay.
So yeah so that's just knowing that with the boundaries we are setting the boundaries but
at the same time we are making…we're doing it very respectfully and at the same time we
are knowing that without setting these boundaries our in-laws will be running our marriage and
That's what we don't want.
Yes.
Thank you.
Becoming a United Front, as you said, what does it really mean for a husband and wife to become
one team?
This is very important and this is basically what we really do here at Live Your Best Marriage.
We believe that being a United Front means that you make decisions together, you are refusing
as a couple to allow outside pressure to turn against us.
So me and my wife should not be fighting each other
because of where I was raised or where she was raised
or what a lot of other things are happening outside us,
we should not be fighting because of that.
But that does not mean
that we will always agree immediately.
No, we can disagree.
But what it means is she is not my enemy
because as long as I know she's not my enemy, just think about it when you're talking to
your friend.
Even if you guys don't agree, you still believe it's your friend so you can always find a way
to make it work.
But if it's an enemy, you are like no!
I don't want to talk to them, I don't wanna see them and I'm gonna even revenge.
Something like that right?
But if it's your friend you're like no what?
I really don't…
Maybe they really didn't hear me.
I think that even answers the other question I was about to ask on how couples pop seeing each
and work together against each other as the problem and work together against the problem.
Yes, that is very important.
And most people when they are getting married, they do this because they want to stay married.
When you're getting married, you know you are not marrying your enemy.
You know you are marrying your best friend.
So what we are basically saying is let them continue being your best friend.
I don't think, unless you're crazy most people will not get married just so that they can have a divorce
It's always so that they can stay married
Yes
Communication that builds connection
What communication mistake do you see most often?
I say that again, communication that builds connections
Did you get me?
No, you had said something about communication that builds connection and then you cut off
Okay, I said what communication mistakes do you see most often?
What I see most often is people don't want to listen.
And when I mean listen is if you're talking to me,
am I going to sit there and listen or am I getting my answer ready?
Most of the time we instead of listening,
what is she really telling me?
and I'm already thinking about the next thing.
Or, I'm on my phone.
I'm on my phone talking to my wife.
So, I think communication that brings connection
is put the phone down, turn off the TV
and talk to each other or at the same time
or maybe just take a walk because that,
if just you and your spouse are walking
and you're cutting out of your environment
and you're able to just talk the two of you, that can really bring connection.
Versus kids are crying, you're on your phone, TV's on,
and she's trying to tell you how she missed you during the whole day
and they're like okay, great!
There's no connection there.
Yes, that's very true.
What particular habits can couples start today to improve their communication?
It takes away connection when you are talking and at the same time you are looking at your notifications.
And maybe I'm saying I'm an older guy but I know it just doesn't bring connection.
Put the phone down, put it on silent, let's talk and then later on we can be on our phones
but at that moment, especially if I come from work and you're excited to see me, think about it,
I'm coming from work we are excited to see me and I walk in everybody's happy
and I'm on the phone talking right like before you get in the house end all the calls so that
when you walk in when they're happy to see you also happy to see them. That's a little trick
Faith and marriage. How does faith help couples navigate difficult situations, difficult seasons?
Yes, faith is very important because in life there's a lot of things we cannot control but
as Christians we can always be reading the Bible and there are a lot of answers there. Now
Now, most people when they think of marriage, they only think about the good times.
They don't think about times where there'll be tried in terms of maybe sickness, death,
accidents…
Like just, there's a lot of things will happen in a marriage and if you are only relying on
yourself to handle this situation it's impossible but when you believe in a God who is bigger
is easier than you and you're praying to God and things like that.
It's easier to go through all these hard times, especially if these issues are going to be going on for a long time.
Like sickness, that is just for years.
Some people are taking care of their husbands or their wives who are sick for more than 20 years.
So that changes the way you even think about marriage all of a sudden because
28:18In-laws and hidden cultural expectations
that means it's not going to dates anymore. Now, it's like going to their doctors,
doctor bills, all these things and you are still calling it a marriage so you have to believe
on something bigger than you or you wouldn't be able to do it there.
Thank you. What role does prayer play in strengthening a marriage?
So we believe prayer is talking to God and because it's talking to God, we believe you can start from every day, pray together.
I'm praying and she can hear what I'm saying and she's praying and I can hear what she's saying.
and hear what she's saying.
So I, in a way believe like I now start understanding what is really her, what she's afraid of, what
she's worried about, what she wants because she's talking to God and I can hear what she's
saying.
At the same time it helps us connect more because as a couple if we are praying together
it's like another time we're spending together and it's not just us arguing and complaining
Praying to each other, oh the bills are too much, oh we can't afford this.
No, it's we're here praying to God hoping that our marriage will work or praying to God
that our parents will continue being healthy and things like that so it literally brings
us together.
Oh our kids will graduate or they'll finish their school or they'll get over the cold
they were having and things like that so it really helps us come together just by praying.
Thank you very much. Advice to newly married couples, if you were to give every newlywed
three piece of advice what would they be?
Okay, if it's a cross-cultural couple or any other couple I think the first thing is before
Before you even get married, have a conversation about what does your spouse to be?
What do they believe in?
And these are some…
Don't find out later when you're already married that they believe in a different…
Yeah.
They believe in a different God.
or also ask about things like what obligations do they have with their parents or with their family.
Some people you are getting married to but they are supposed to be building a house for their parents,
they're supposed to be taking their brothers and sisters to school. If you don't know this before
Before you get married, that might be an issue later
And another thing is just be okay communicating and apologizing I guess
Yes
That's very important apologizing when
Even if you're wrong or you're not it's always good to apologize then probably over time you say oh
This is why I feel what you did was not about what you said wasn't right
Thank you
Thank you very much. You can please, you can share what you wanted to say.
Oh I was just saying just think about your best friend. Your best friend is somebody that you
are looking forward to talking to. Your best friend is somebody who uh you don't feel bad
to apologize to so make that… What if that is your spouse? Like if the spouse was like that
It makes life so easy.
Yes, it surely does.
Even when you're fighting with your best friend, you can always talk because
you both know deep down inside you love each other and you want the best for each other.
Yep.
Okay, rebooting after conflict
is it possible to review trust after repeated disagreements?
You know, that's a very good question and also hard one because when you're rebuilding trust
it's not just saying I'm sorry. You are actually saying that I will stop doing what I was doing
and I'm okay for you to check on me like you are I'm okay for you to verify
Trust has been broken in a marriage and now you are apologizing.
And now, you want your spouse to trust you again.
You number one have to be doing what you said you're going to do and you also have to be
okay with her checking.
Now that's where a lot of us would be like, hold on I apologize she just has to trust me.
She doesn't need to check.
See, it's hard to trust. It's hard to trust something that you at the same time you're like,
I don't know are they really doing what they say they're going to do? So when it comes to trust
do you really believe you have changed and are you willing for her to check? Most of us
because that becomes a very hard thing.
And it's, that's why the issue of trust takes a long time
and one little thing can break trust,
something very little can break trust
and it takes for a long time to rebuild it.
What are the steps?
What steps, what first step should couples take in doing that?
To when it's time to rebuild trust,
The first thing is, say you're sorry and start showing actions.
Not just talking.
You have to start showing that you are doing what you said you're going to do.
So let's say I broke trust and maybe it starts from the friends I was hanging out with, the
places I was going to, maybe the job I was doing.
There's a lot of things. So in my mind, maybe I need to stop hanging out with those friends
very hard for a lot of people. Stop going to those places very hard and in my even main
switch departments in a job very hard and it becomes a situation where what we see in couples
the trust never gets rebuilt because the other person who wants to rebuild the trust
He's not willing to do the actions that will prove that they have changed
Final takeaway, if everybody is listening, remember just one thing from today's conversation
What would you want it to be?
I will want them to know that remember that your spouse is not your enemy
She is not your enemy, he or she is not your enemy
So remember that
Even if you don't remember anything
And as long as you think they are an enemy
You'll be having problems
And sometimes you might say
Thank you so much
Thank you very much
Sorry, you can go ahead
I would love to hear what you were saying
I was just saying like sometimes we say they are not enemies but we treat them like an enemy. Yeah.
Professor, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and practical insights today.
I'm sure our listeners have been encouraged to approach marriages as a team rooted in love, faith and unity
where people can connect with and learn more about your work. So thank you very, very much.
You're welcome. You're welcome. And they can just follow us at Live Your Best Marriage, which is L-I-V-E,
Your Best Marriage.
They can also Google Live Your Best Marriage, which is again L-I-V-E, Your Best Marriage on Google. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you. I hope to
37:45Handling holidays and family decisions
and I hope to have more interviews with you because it's been very insightful.
You're welcome, I'm glad that you are getting your podcast going and I'm really rooting for
you, I want you to succeed.
And also my youngest daughter is Sophia.
Thank you so much, thank you and thank you very much for the help Elia.
I appreciate it.
You're welcome.
Welcome to the host from you.
It's a pleasure to have you Pesa, just give me a few moments.
All right.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Welcome to those from you today I'm joined by Pesa Shayo, author and co-founder of Live Your Best Marriage.
Pesa is passionate about helping cross-cultural Christian couples build stronger, healthier
marriages by navigating cultural differences, family expectations and communication challenges
with unity and faith. Pesa it's a pleasure to have you with us. Thank you very much Sophia,
thank you for having me and I'm really looking forward to talk with you and see how I can
and just give you some ideas about personal growth
and how we can become better people in marriage.
Thank you so much for joining us.
So the story behind your mission,
what inspired you to start Live Your Best Marriage?
Thank you for asking that question.
So again, I'm originally from Kenya
and my wife is American.
And we've been married for about more than 20 years.
And through that time,
we have been able to weather a lot of storms in our marriage
and that's how we decided
to start helping Christian couples,
especially the ones who come from different cultures,
start working together to become more of a united front
because there's a lot of expectations
from different cultures, in-laws, who they're going to be loyal to, boundaries, how to set
boundaries and things like that. So that's in a nutshell, that's who I am and what I do.
Harry? So how has your own cross-cultural marriage shaped the work you do today?
You know, in the beginning, I used to think for a man, the only thing you are responsible
and the reason why I'm here today is because my wife is a very young woman.
My wife, she's a very young woman.
And what I've been working on so far is work hard, pay bills,
and make sure that your family is taken care of financially.
After that, my job as a husband is done.
But through this whole process, I found out that my wife,
although I was quote-unquote providing,
divorce. And we, at that time I did not know that because the way I was raised, I was actually
emotionally disconnected from my wife because at this time there was no affair or any public scandal
but simply I just became disconnected because I was providing and this her saying that she's ready
to live really forced me to understand that just taking care of bills is not the same as
taking care of my marriage. And my wife also needs more of my attention, more of my honesty and
confidence that she can know that I'm always going to be on her side and we are just not two roommates
in a house. Yes. Great. Why strong marriages still struggle? What are some of the biggest
challenges couples face today, what do you think some of the biggest challenges couples face?
You know there's a lot of challenges and I think it's different, especially for cross-cultural
There are a lot of different expectations. There's the old expectations that you get from your culture.
And now, because we are all connected on our phones and the internet and things like that,
there is also new expectations. So I believe most marriages are suffering from lack of being aware
and start facing the problem together.
So that's a little nuance, but I think that's one of the biggest problems we are having in marriages today.
Okay.
Just to… I also feel communication should be like a set goal for every couple.
Or what do you think about that?
I think that is very, very important to communicate and then going deeper in the communication.
If your wife is talking to you are you gonna be defensive?
Because the way I was raised, I was in a way telling the truth and not always being defensive,
not telling the truth was normal and being always defensive.
If somebody stops saying something about you, you are always finding a way to defend yourself.
Always defending yourself. You cannot just keep quiet and listen to what they're saying.
You are always thinking, okay, are they attacking me?
So as much as we are communicating, being able to listen,
being able to stop defending yourself for no reason
and as an African man learn to apologize.
That's a big one too there, so it's part of communication
but I feel like remembering that you can do wrong
and you can apologize too.
Why do small issues often turn into recurring conflicts?
What do you think?
So sometimes those small issues will turn into recurring conflict
because you are not aware that, okay this is happening, am I aware that we've been fighting about the same thing for the last five years?
And at the same time why is it that we're fighting about the same thing?
or maybe it's because every time we have this conversation about the in-laws,
he or she ends up taking their side instead of saying,
okay, we are making this decision together.
Or we're having this argument all the time is because maybe other people from outside our marriage
are actually coming into our marriage and making decisions for us.
So sometimes it's very important to pause, okay, why are we having this argument for a long time?
And what can we do as we're working together to deal with the situation?
So being aware is very important.
Thank you very much. Thank you, grandmother. I really got a lot of…
I believe where you said you have to sometimes, you know, take your time and really discourse
and talk about why those issues are reoccurring. It's very important because at the end of the
day you might not… You might just feel you've sorted that issue and then it comes back up
again and the more it occurs, the more it gets frustrating and blows off.
Yes, just for example, sometimes like around Christmas time. You might be having the same
arguments around the holidays because maybe especially if it's a cross-cultural marriage,
maybe one person, maybe my wife expects holidays to be just family, mom, dad and the kids while
I'm raised to think the holidays are for everybody.
Mom, dad, his uncle, cousins, basically the whole neighborhood.
47:11Boundaries that honor parents and protect marriage
So now that becomes an issue because I want to do…
And now I'm like okay how can… why are we having this holiday
that's really not a real holiday?
And she's like this is a great holiday! We're just asked by ourselves.
So that can actually be a big problem and every…
and unless I'm very intentional say okay maybe you are raised differently. Like I had a story about
a friend who was saying that every time the wife would ask him do you think we need new furniture?
Should you like also help me choose the furniture? And he was always saying now you go ahead and
and choose the furniture. So she just goes and decorates the home. And then one day he is
upset because he never gets to choose anything, because the house does not look the way he
wanted. But she's coming from a place where she has to ask him and there has to be a communication
and he's coming from a place where even if he says no, he's supposed to be taken to the
What unique strength do cultural marriages have?
We are getting more connected and just with the internet and people are travelling more, going to different countries so we'll be having more cross-cultural marriages
And I feel like one of the biggest strengths of cross-cultural marriages is you're connecting people who in all times they will be maybe enemies
How can couples embrace cultural differences instead of fighting over them?
Okay, because you are in my country, we will go by the culture here.
You will have to learn my language.
You'll have to act the way we act here.
But sometimes yes, when I'm outside the house that makes sense
because you're in another country and you need to act the way people
act in their country.
But when you're not in your house, in your own home, I believe
The two cultures should be equal and that will prevent a lot of problems.
One, when you literally are like okay your holidays are not better than my holidays we will find a way
to make it work. Yes. Yeah your food is no better than my food we'll just make it work. Yes.
Yes, that's strange because I've had people who basically from probably different religion
got married and one they are celebrating this the other they're not celebrating that
and sometimes those things bring issues. And I believe this interview would also help to
to reach out to these persons or people that are in such situation, if I may call it that,
situations and be more aware and be more open-minded.
Yes, just as a quick example, there was a time when our kids were little, when our first daughter
Whitney, my wife believed that because she is the mom and she gave birth to a child, she's supposed to name the kid.
Makes sense! But where we came from, we named kids after relatives. So we named after my grandma, I named after my…
and the first name is my son.
So there's like a list of ladies, if it's a girl who are supposed to be named.
So doesn't make a big deal until you are dealing with two cultures now.
So eventually we had to come to an agreement that she will pick the first name,
I'll pick the second and then the last name is like my son in.
But understanding that the first name she's going to pick,
pick. That sounds very easy right now, but during that time there was a lot of back and forth.
Because me and my family we thought will pick the names because I don't know why we thought
right now it doesn't make sense, but at that time it really made so much sense that we will be the
one to pick. And she also thought like okay hey this is my daughter i'm gonna pick the name.
It's more like something you have been taught from childhood, something that has imbibed in you and your whole culture of people.
and it makes sense because you have just been within your people.
So when you go outside that environment, like you rightly said,
It's always very good to be open-minded. Once you are open-minded, you get to learn more and you get to see people's point of view and understand better.
Yes.
Okay, and you were about saying something?
No, I say you're right. That's basically being open-minded and just knowing that there is another culture that we will make it equal to yours
and we will find a way to make those two work. Can be a big issue.
Okay, in the in-laws pressure and boundaries, why do in-laws relationship create tension
so many marriages? You know, the simple thing and it took me a long time to understand is
The in-law problems usually don't really, they are not really about the in-law.
It's just it actually shows that me and my wife are not united because the in-laws when
they bring let's say they're suggesting that you guys have to come on this day.
You guys will have to take the kids to this school or whatever they suggest if I'm saying
and you know what? Yeah, but my wife doesn't want it.
I just told them that me and my wife are not united
or if she goes and says, you know what mom?
We will do it, but Pesa really… I don't think Pesa would like it
That really shows that we are not united
So the most important thing is
we have to be used to saying
we are not gonna do it
Or let me ask him
Let's talk about it first and then we'll respond. As long as we are showing that we have some sort of a unity
And then when we talk to the in-laws, we are coming as one. You know what? We are not coming for the event
Or why I think you should always call before you come
or we don't want the kids to watch that show
issues. It's okay, so just to finish what I was saying,
uh, setting boundaries and in-laws problems are usually just it's a symptom of the fact that
we as a couple are not united and once we get united and we're working together as
56:37Seeing your spouse as a teammate
As United Front, those in-laws problems really go away
Okay, and just to trip in like you said rightly
When somebody beat your in-laws, be it friends or any particular family member
And they are making any suggestion
I believe that when you have, when you and your spouse are united, it's difficult for somebody's opinion to come first.
You could consider it but you can consider it together.
Yep, you consider it together and you also know that the fact that yes they are giving us their opinion but eventually we will have to make the decision and we will live with what we decided
Ok how can Coppu set healthy boundaries while still honoring their families?
release. Perfect, so most people are afraid to set boundaries because they believe that
saying no to anybody will make them selfish, make them very disrespectful to their parents
and very disloyal but also what sometimes when you don't say no, you also bring a lot of resentment
inside your marriage. So I believe that you can be very respectful to your parents,
but at the same time and you are telling them no very respectfully,
but you are making sure that they are not controlling what goes on in your marriage.
So we are not saying oh because you're doing united with your spouse or you're
doing a united front now you need to go around disrespecting your parents or your
with your uncles, your aunts. No no no no we are saying you can be very respectful.
Okay so yeah so that's just knowing that with the boundaries we are setting
the boundaries but at the same time we are making we are doing it very
respectfully and at the same time we are knowing that without setting these
Thank you for becoming a United Front, as you said. What does it really mean for a husband and wife to become one team?
This is very important and this is basically what we really do here at Live Your Best Marriage.
We believe that being a United Front means that you make decisions together.
You are refusing as a couple to allow outside pressure to turn against us. So me and my wife
should not be fighting each other because of where I was raised or where she was raised,
or what a lot of other things are happening outside us. We should not be fighting because
I don't want to talk to them, I don't wanna see them and I'm gonna even revenge. Something like that right?
But if it's your friend you're like no what I really don't maybe they really didn't hear me
Maybe I need to call them, maybe I need to send a text message because you just don't feel like your friend will do that to you
That's true
And that's what we want to do
With United Front we want to make it that we are not against each other and we are not enemies
I think that even answers the other question I was about to ask, how can couples stop seeing
each other as a problem and work together against the problem?
Yes.
That is very important.
And most people when they are getting married, they do this because they want to stay married.
And when you're getting married, you know you are not marrying your enemy.
Communication that builds connection. What communication mistake do you see most often?
Did you get me?
No, you had said something about communication that builds connection and then you cut off.
Okay, I said what communication mistakes do you see most often?
What I see most often is people don't want to listen
And when I mean listen is if you're talking to me
Am I going to sit there and listen or am I getting my answer ready?
Most of the time we, instead of listening, what is she really telling me?
I'm already thinking about the next thing.
Oh, I'm on my phone.
I'm on my phone talking to my wife.
So I think communication that brings connection
is put the phone down, turn off the TV
and talk to each other or at the same time
or maybe just take a walk because that
if you're just new and your spouse are walking
and you are cutting, you're out of your environment and you're able to just talk the two of you.
That can really bring connection versus kids are crying, you on your phone, TV is on
and she's trying to tell you how she missed you during the whole day and they're like okay, great!
There's no connection there.
Yes that's very true, that's very true.
Yes, yes.
It takes away connection when you are talking and at the same time you are looking at your notifications
Maybe I'm saying that I'm an older guy but I know it just doesn't bring connections
Put the phone down, put it on silent, let's talk
and then later on we can be on our phones but at that moment especially if I come from work
and you're excited to see me think about it, I'm coming from work we're excited to see me
and I walk in everybody's happy and I'm on the phone talking right like before you get in the house
end all the calls so that when you walk in when they are happy to see you also happy to see them
That's a treat to help your listeners.
Faith and marriage, how does faith help couples navigate difficult situations, difficult seasons?
Yes, faith is very important because in life there are a lot of things we cannot control but
as Christians we can always be reading the Bible and there's a lot of answers there.
Now, most people when they think of marriage, they only think about the good times.
They don't think about times where there'll be tried in terms of maybe sickness, death, accidents.
There's a lot of things will happen in a marriage and if you are only relying on yourself to handle this situation, it's impossible.
It's impossible. But when you believe in a God who is bigger than you, and you are praying to God and things like that, it's easier to go through all these hard times, especially if these issues are going on for a long time.
1:06:03Rebuilding trust and daily connection
Like sickness that is just for years. Some people are taking care of their husbands or wives who are sick for more than 20 years.
So that changes the way you even think about marriage all of a sudden because that means
it's not going to dates anymore. Now, it's like going to their doctors, doctor's bills,
all these things and you are still calling it a marriage so you have to believe on something
bigger than you or you wouldn't be able to do it. Thank you, thank you. What role does
What does prayer play in strengthening a marriage?
So we believe prayer is talking to God and because it's talking to God,
We believe you can start from every day pray together.
I'm praying and she can hear what I'm saying
And she's praying and I can hear what she's saying
I now start understanding what she is really afraid of, what she's worried about, what she wants because she's talking to God and I can hear what she's saying.
At the same time it helps us connect more because as a couple if we are praying together it's like another time we're spending together.
and it's not just us arguing and complaining to each other,
or the bills are too much, or we can't afford this.
No, it's we're here praying to God hoping that our marriage will work
or praying to God that our parents will continue being healthy
and things like that so it literally brings us together.
Or our kids will graduate or they'll finish their school
or they'll get over the cold they were having and things like that
So it really helps us come together when just by praying.
Thank you very much. Advice to newly married couples, if you were to give every newlywed three pieces of advice, what would they be?
Okay, if it's a cross-cultural couple or any other couple, I think the first thing is before you even get married
have a conversation about what does your spouse to be, what do they believe in?
And these are some… Don't find out later when you're already married that they believe in a different…
Yeah. They believe in a different God.
Or also ask about things like what obligations are they…
What obligations do they have with their parents or with their family? Some people you are getting married to, but they are supposed to be building a house for their parents. They're supposed to be taking their brothers and sisters to school. If you don't know this before you get married that might be an issue later.
And another thing is just be okay communicating and apologizing I guess. Yes.
That's very important, I apologize. Even if you're wrong or not, it's always good to apologize then.
Probably over time you say, oh this is why I feel what you did was not proper or what you said wasn't right.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Please you can share what you wanted to say.
I was just saying, just think about your best friend.
Your best friend is somebody that you are looking forward to talking to.
Your best friend is somebody who you don't feel bad to apologize to.
So make that… what if that is your spouse?
Like, if the spouse was like that it makes life so easy.
It surely does.
Even when fighting with your best friend you can always talk because
because you both know deep down inside, you love each other and you want the best for each other.
Yep, yep.
Okay, rebuilding after conflict. Is it possible to review trust after repeated disagreements?
You know that's a very good question and also a hard one because when you are rebuilding trust
Trust. It's not just saying, I'm sorry. You are actually saying that I will stop doing
what I was doing and I'm okay for you to check on me like you are. I'm okay for you to verify
that I'm not really doing whatever I was doing because trusting if if you really trust somebody
you know, you know K-N-O-W, you know that they are doing what they say they are doing.
So for example when you say if somebody says I'm going to the market and you trust them
you know they went to the market right? You are not there but you just know.
So if trust has been broken in a marriage and now you are apologizing and now you want your spouse to trust you again
You, number one, have to be doing what you said you're gonna do
And you also have to be okay with her checking
Now that's where a lot of us would be like, hold on. I apologize
She just has to trust me
She just has to trust her. She doesn't need to check.
See, it's hard to trust. It's hard to trust something that you…
At the same time, you're like, I don't know. Are they really doing what they say they want to do?
So when it comes to trust, do you really believe you have changed and are you willing for how to check?
Most of us, that becomes a very hard thing.
And it's… that's why the issue of trust takes a long time.
And one little thing can break trust.
Something very little can break trust and it takes for a long time to rebuild it.
What are the steps?
What steps?
What first step should couples take in doing that?
When it's time to
Rebuild trust. The first thing is say you're sorry, yes? And start showing, showing, you know actions.
Not just talking. You have to start showing that you are doing what you said you're gonna do.
Yeah so let's say I broke trust and maybe it starts from the friends I was hanging out with,
the places I was going to, maybe the job I was doing, there's a lot of things.
So in my mind, maybe I need to stop hanging out with those friends.
Very hard for a lot of people.
Stop going to those places very hard.
And it might even mean switch departments in a job, very hard.
And it becomes a situation where what we see in couples,
If the trust never gets rebuilt because the other person who wants to rebuild a trust
is not willing to do the actions that will prove that they have changed.
Final takeaway, if every couple listening remembered
just one thing from today's conversation what would you want it to be?
I will want them to know that remember that your spouse is not your enemy. Yeah, he or she is not your enemy.
So remember that even if you don't remember anything and as long as you think they're an enemy you'll be having problems.
And sometimes you might say thank you so much. Thank you very much.
Sorry, you can go ahead. I would love to hear what you were saying.
I was just saying like sometimes we say they are not enemies but we treat them like an enemy.
Yeah.
Pesa thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and practical insights today.
I'm sure our listeners have been encouraged to approach marriages as a team rooted in love.
and unity where people can connect with and learn more about your work. So thank you very, very much.
You're welcome. You're welcome. And they can just follow us at Live Your Best Marriage which is L-I-V-E
Your Best Marriage. They can also google Live Your Best Marriage which is again L-I-V-E Your
Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. I hope to have more interviews with you because it's been very insightful.
You're welcome. I'm glad that you are getting your podcast going and I'm really rooting for you, I want you to succeed.
and also my youngest, Dora Isofia, so I really want to thank you very much for the help, Elia.
I appreciate it.
Credits and links
About this podcast appearance
The Wholesome You is hosted by Sophia Arutere. This page remains connected to the original public episode.
Learn more about Pesa Shayo, explore his books, or see more podcast appearances. Marriage resources are available from Live Your Best Marriage.