Podcast appearance
A United Front: Strengthening Marriage Through Faith, Boundaries, and Unity | Guest: Pesa Shayo
Samson Igberase and Pesa Shayo discuss resilient marriage, healthy communication, faith, boundaries, forgiveness, cultural differences, and the legacy couples pass to the next generation.
- Podcast
- The Wisdom Transfer
- Host
- Samson Igberase
- Published
- Guest
- Pesa Shayo
Listen
The Wisdom Transfer
Episode overview
About this conversation
Every marriage faces pressure. The central question in this episode is whether that pressure turns spouses against one another or becomes something they learn to face together.
Pesa and Samson explore communication, in-law relationships, cultural expectations, loyalty, forgiveness, faith, and the example a united marriage leaves for children and future generations.
Key takeaways
Marriage principles discussed
- Pressure tests unity even when love is present.
- Healthy communication helps couples identify the real issue together.
- Clear boundaries reduce confusion about loyalty and responsibility.
- Forgiveness and faith support repair after conflict.
- The way spouses face pressure becomes part of the legacy they pass on.
Chapters
Conversation chapters
Full transcript
The Wisdom Transfer transcript
Transcript note: Published with permission and formatted for readability. This transcript was automatically generated from the original public recording or caption track. Speaker names are omitted where the source did not identify them, and minor transcription errors may remain.
00:00Opening and Guest Introduction
All right. Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode on the podcast. Now, what's if the biggest threat to your marriage isn't the lack of love? What if real struggle begins when family expectations, cultural traditions and divided loyalties quietly come between two people. Marriage isn't only about choosing each other once. It's about
learning to stand together again and again. Welcome to the Wisdom Transfer, We're experienced in picture
the future. And today we'll be exploring cross-cultural marriage, faith, boundaries, family expectations
and how couples can stop turning against each other and start facing life's pressures as one team.
My wonderful guest of today is Pesa Shayo, author,
and co-founder of Live Your Best Marriage,
where he helps cross-cultural Christian couples build what he calls a united front.
Drawing from his own cross-cultural marriage with his wife Whitney
and years of helping couples navigate complex relationship dynamics.
Pesa understands how in law pressure
cultural expectations, communication,
excuse me, communication breakdowns,
loyalty conflicts can quietly create division inside a marriage.
His work helps couples look beyond surface-level arguments and identify
the deeper pressures, pulling them apart through his books, podcasts,
marriage resources, and practical faith rooted teaching Pesa gives couples
the language and truths they need to communicate more clearly, establish healthier boundaries
is strengthening their unity and face outside pressure together.
His core message is simple.
When challenges arise, couples don't have to turn against each other.
They can learn to stand together as one team.
Pesa, it's an absolute pleasure to have you on the show.
You are welcome to The Wisdom Transfer.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much, Samson, for having me.
I am very happy to be here today.
Wonderful to have you. Thank you so much for coming.
Now, Pesa, before we get this in the main conversation,
can you just tell us a little bit about yourself?
Yes. So again, I'm Pesa Shayoyo and originally
I'm from Kenya in Africa
And my wife Whitney is from America
And we've been married for about 20 years
We have four daughters
And we created the live your best marriage
As Samson had said
To help Christian couple
especially couples from different cultures,
create a united front.
And the reason I care so much about marriage
is not because I have a perfect marriage
is because actually mine almost didn't make it.
Oh wow.
Yes, almost mind didn't make it.
And this was because I was raised to think
03:30Financial Provision and Emotional Presence
that a husband's job is to provide
So work hard, pay the bills, make sure that your family is okay financially.
And I knew that meant being a great husband and as much as those things mattered
I had to learn the hard way that being there emotionally for your wife also is important,
not just providing financially for a family.
And that is why I'm here actually to help transfer this wisdom to the young folks so
that they can learn and, that way they don't have to go through the pain I went through.
Wow, absolutely amazing Pesa. Now, Pesa, your work, you're welcome. Your work is shaped by
your own cross-cultural marriage between me, you know? Yes. What experiences in your first
marriage helped you recognize how deeply culture, family expectations, and loyalty conflicts
can affect a couple. Yes. So as I was saying,
there was a lot of things which we did not even know getting into the marriage, that
we had the good intentions and also we love each other but we didn't think that
also there's some family expectations because coming from Africa we have this
expectation that a son needs also to help his family of all.
origin, where you come from so that you need to help your parents.
You need to send money to relatives.
Holidays need to be spent there.
The way you name your kids have to do with your family.
There's a lot of things which is already built in and we did not have
that conversation before the marriage.
Yes.
Wow.
An absolutely wonderful response, Pesa.
Now, Pesa, you teach couples.
to build what you call a United Front,
you know. What does a United Front marriage
actually look like in everyday life?
So, in everyday life,
united front doesn't mean that you agree on everything
immediately. But it actually means
that both of you will come together,
work through things and then when you are talking
to family, your family of origin, you are talking
to other people. You are saying it's we. We decided.
We said this. It's not like, you know what? She decided
I'm just following. Oh, you know what? He said it
but it's we decided. So that might
sound very simple when you're saying that, but it's actually one
of the hardest things for couples because
you are saying that
you are treating the problem
like the husband and wife
are coming together
and working on the problem
instead of coming and fighting
and coming and start
fighting each other. That
might mean that
when you get that phone call
from friends
or family
or some, like your family of origin
and you say okay send us money
most of a time, the spouse will find out after their money has already been sent.
Or they'll find out after the land has been bought.
07:30Shared Decisions and Deeper Conflicts
They'll find out after something has already happened.
But we are saying no.
First, they need to know and then you guys will make…
We're not saying that they'll say no, but we are saying they need to know too
ahead of you making that decision.
Yeah.
And for a lot of cost cultural couples, this can be a hard thing.
Yes.
Wow.
Now, Pesa, many couples believe they are arguing about small issues when the real conflict may involve deeper questions
of loyalty, identity and family expectations, you know?
How can couples recognize the real issue underneath their arguments?
Issa, I there?
You know, one of the things.
things they can start looking for is how often do we fight about this thing?
Sometimes if it's the same argument every day, you might not be dealing with that issue but a different expectation
that you might be having when you come to like basically a different expectation.
So, for example, you might be arguing every day like why do you come from work late?
Why do you come from work late?
And somebody is like they know for sure that going to work all the time and providing for
their family is what they are supposed to do.
So they even, they might think that although you are questioning that,
they believe they're doing the right thing.
So it's very important to pause and say,
why, what are the things that we are fighting all the time instead of becoming just defensive?
An absolutely wonderful response. Again Pesa, now Pesa, excuse me?
Yes.
You know, in-law relationships can become one of the greatest sources of tension in a marriage, you
know. How can couples honor their parents and extended families while still protecting the unity
of their marriage.
That is a very great question, and that is very important because you're saying two things.
Protecting their marriage but at the same time honoring their parent.
Because a lot of people think that when we say United Front,
we are talking about protecting your marriage and hating your parents or protecting
your marriage and hating everybody else.
No, we are saying protecting your marriage, but at the same time
re-honoring the other ones. And what happens is, we are saying
is you can be respectful, take advice from your family,
your parents, but when it's time to make the final decision,
the final decision needs to be made by the husband and wife.
And that is what, when we read the Bible,
we talk about living and cleaving. So we are not saying we are disrespecting
our parents. But we are saying the final decision has to be made by
The couple Wow! Now, this is amazing an amazing response now first culture couples may enter marriage with very different expectations around money
11:30Honoring Both Cultures in Marriage
parenting gender roles religion and family responsibilities how should couples navigate those differences without true?
strengthening one culture as superior to the other?
This is very important.
What you raised, that without one culture being superior to another…
Yeah.
That is very important because we hear a lot of stories
where one person says that they feel like they need to give up
because their culture is not the superior culture.
We believe that
it doesn't matter which country you are in.
As long as you're married, your cultures should be equal.
We should not have one culture…
Even if you're speaking that language, we should not have
one culture more superior than the others.
And if possible,
the best thing is to talk about these things
and most of your audience are young folks.
So the best thing is to talk about this thing
before you get married.
Like ask yourself questions
like how do we,
how do our families?
Like what are the expectations
financial expectations from family.
Do we, am I supposed to take care of parents,
siblings or extended family?
What am I expected
to do when family calls?
Have this conversation before you get married.
But fine, after you get married
and you're still, you never had
this conversation now, it's more important
to have it.
But I think the most important
is knowing that no culture should be seen as more superior in their marriage.
Because this has been a big problem for a lot of couples, yes.
And certain boundaries with family can sometimes create guilt or accusations of disrespect.
You know, how can couples establish healthy boundaries while still?
acting with love and honoring their Christian faith.
This is, what you brought up is very important.
The idea that of disrespect, most of us are raised not to disrespect our parents.
We are raised not to disrespect our elders.
So now, that word disrespect can be used many ways by our parents or elders.
So sometimes we are not even, we're afraid to even say anything because if they say you just disrespected me, that's like something you don't really want to happen.
But what we are saying here is we are making sure we are no disrespecting.
We are very calm, very respectful, logical, but very nice about it.
But at the same time, we are very clear that the decisions in our marriage will always be made.
made by the husband and wife, not by other people outside their marriage.
So this is like a very fine line to work, to walk because at the same time you are making sure that
you are very clear. I'm not disrespecting my parents.
At the same time, I will make this decision as a couple in my family, in my marriage.
15:30Parents' Advice and Marriage Boundaries
Oh wow.
For example, if a parent says this is where I want you to send.
This is the school I want you to send the child.
That's a great idea.
But you haven't made the decision until you and your spouse have talked about it.
You might go with that decision.
But you are not just going to take their point as the final point.
Does that make sense?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes. Now, Hesa, when one spouse feels thoughts between loyalty to their partner and loyalty to their family of origin, you know? What conversations need to happen before resentment begins to go?
This is a hard one because this is why basically we are trying to address this because most of us have loyalty to… Most of us don't appreciate it.
how much loyalty we have to our family of origin and how less loyalty we have
to our marriage. And if somebody is caught there, the best thing is to start having conversation
not to be mean and rude with them but actually start having a conversation where you are trying
to show that we want to have a united front. Now, we are not saying that don't send money or
don't help your family. But at the same time, we are saying that
we need to make the decision together and also
we need to build our family too. Yeah, absolutely true.
And Pesa, you give couples practical language
they can use immediately as home. You know, what are some
common? What are some communication habits
that help spouses stop fighting each other
and start facing their problems together.
You know, one thing that sometimes
one thing we like to help couples with
is having at least 10 to 15 minutes each day
that they can stop everything
and just sit together and have a conversation.
This sounds very easy, 10 to 15 minutes
but for a lot of couples,
they don't know what to say when
they are supposed to talk about things
to each other, rather than they always think about
fighting, arguing, talking about who's going to pick up the kids
or who's going to drop off the kids and all those things.
So we have books that will give them questions
that the books they'll have the questions
that they can use to…
open a page and start these questions that they can use to talk to each other.
And after a while, they'll start getting better and better at this because most of the problems we found
with a lot of couples is they don't know what to say, other than fighting.
It sounds crazy right now, but that's a very common thing, yes.
Wow.
And in Pesa, you know, looking at younger couples preparing for marriage today,
what conversations about cultural, family,
culture, family traditions, boundaries and loyalty
do you believe they should have before saying I do?
Yes, this is thank you for this question.
The first one is
have the questions like have conversations
19:30Premarital Conversations About Family Expectations
like before you get married don't just look at
or is he a nice guy
or does he have money and things like that?
No, ask us.
Ask them when our families expect different things from us,
how do we decide together?
Things like what financial responsibilities right now
are your family expecting you to provide
because sometimes people already know
what financial responsibility they're supposed
to provide to their family of origin
and they'll tell you, okay, I'm supposed to pay school fees for my brother.
I'm supposed to send my extended family to school.
They will tell you all those things.
Ask before you get married.
Also ask them when we disagree, let's say we disagree because of your mom or
we disagree because of my mom, things like that.
How are we going to make it that we can support each other
but at the same time we are treating our family with respect?
So these are things you can talk about before you get married.
Like, hey, if we disagree with any of our family, how are we going to respect them?
But at the same time, stand with each other.
And also another thing which is very important is don't for this is for men,
don't confuse providing financially with being there emotionally for your wife because
might think, or I provide everything.
Everything is good.
We have a new house.
We have a new car.
But that does not mean
that's what she thinks is okay.
Yeah.
And those are the things
that you need to ask
or think before you get married.
But just having that conversation
and asking,
what are the responsibilities
that you have right now
in your family
that you're going to take care of financially?
So we know ahead of time
and also how are we going to support each other if
we get into these arguments, because those arguments might show up
with our family.
Yeah.
You're absolutely sure.
And Lisa, a couple listening today realizes that outside pressure
has been quietly weakening their marriage.
What's the first step would you encourage them to take together?
I think just the fact that they know that outside pressure
is affecting their marriage.
That's a big thing.
They can, the best thing,
the easiest thing is just go to unitedfrontmarriage.com
you know frontmarriage.com
where they can take a quiz
and that quiz can help them find out
where they are right now
when it comes to family pressure.
Wow. Yes.
Oh, they can just go to my website
Live Your Best Marriage.com
Live which is LID
VE, Your Best Married.com
and they will see a button there to take the quiz
And the quiz, it's free
But the good thing about it is
You will be able to know exactly where you stand
And then from that now you will
Be able to find ways to get better
We have all the resources there
Amazing
Amazing amazing, Lisa
Now Pesa
My final question to you
Before I ever ask this question
Pesa, I want to first of all
Thank you so much
for taking time out of your busy schedule to come enlighten me and my audience today.
Thank you so much, I truly, really appreciate it.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Yes, I really enjoy being here.
And I also thank you for all the work you've done.
I mean, this wisdom, being able to transfer wisdom from people who have already lived
it to the young folks who are actually starting out because I wish I knew these things many years ago
but guess what, I had to leave it.
Yeah.
Absolutely true. Amazing.
Now, Pesa, the final question is, you know,
this podcast has got the wisdom transfer
24:00Wisdom for the Next Generation
as we just said.
So I'd love to ask if you could transfer
one piece of wisdom.
The next generation about marriage, faith
and building a relationship strong enough
to withstand outside pressure
what's with you want to remember?
What I'll tell the young people right now is learn
to communicate, like even before you get married.
Learn to communicate, like what Samson is doing right now,
learn to communicate also, which is a big thing here,
learn to tell the truth in your marriage.
Also learn to engage,
learn the best way to manage money.
Yeah.
And for us, Africa,
Learn to apologize because that's a hard thing for me and the way I was raised.
Learn to apologize, because don't be just too defensive all the time.
Wow, absolutely wonderful, wonderful wisdom transfer.
Face it now face half, any of my audiences listening right now,
that this whole conversation resonated with
and they would love to know much about your work and how you help people.
how can they find you?
Mine, they can even just go to Google and search
Live Your Best Marriage which is L-I-V-E
your best marriage or just go to live
your bestmarriage.com
LIVEe, yourbestmarriage.com
And we have all the resources there.
Wonderful, wonderful.
Now everyone just started what we suggested
excuse me
this conversation
it helps you recognize how
outside pressure, in-laws, royalty conflicts and cultural expectations may be affecting your marriage.
Visit Pesa's United Front Marriage website
and take the three minutes united front marriage audit.
You know this will help you identify via your marriage which may need greater alignment
and give you a practical next step towards strengthening your unity
and learning to face outside pressure together.
Am I getting this right?
Yes.
And lastly to all my audiences, marriage will face pressure from family,
from potential, from expectations, from voices outside.
Yes.
Relationship but pressure doesn't have to create division in a marriage.
Pesa reminds us that strong marriages aren't built by avoiding difficult conversations
they are built when two people learn to have them together
to communicate, to set boundaries and to protect the unity.
And you remember that when pressure comes from outside,
the answer isn't to turn against each other is to stand by each other
and stand side by side and face it as one team.
Pesa, again, thank you so much for coming on the show
and for sharing your experience, your practical wisdom
and your commitments will help in purpose
a huge stronger faith, centered and censored marriages.
Thank you very much, Samson.
I really appreciate it.
And again, what you're doing here is amazing.
Helping transfer this wisdom.
Wisdom transfer is very important
and I'm glad that you take your time as a student
but you're still able to do this.
This is very impressive.
Oh, thank you so, so much.
Pesa.
to your kind words.
And lastly,
to all my audiences,
thank you so much
for joining us. This has been the wisdom
transfer. We're experienced
speaks to the future and I will see you all
Credits and links
About this podcast appearance
The Wisdom Transfer is hosted by Samson Igberase. This page remains connected to the original public episode.
Learn more about Pesa Shayo, explore his books, or see more podcast appearances. Marriage resources are available from Live Your Best Marriage.